Keep it in gear

[akacastle]

Quick synopsis of what happened to me Saturday night in San Leandro. Was waiting at stop light at Marina and Merced, impacted from behind by drunk in Silverado type pickup truck. Guy ran but I got his plate, called cops......BUSTED! If I had been scanning my mirrors for approaching cars and kept it in gear, as I usually do, especially when there are no cars for a buffer, probably could of avoided this a**hole. Moderate damage considering the impact. Just a reminder guys. Oh and this happened at 11:30pm.

 

[flying_hun]

Next time you'd keep it in gear and keep scanning your mirrors? Sounds good to me. Were you at the front of the line? If not, would you consider splitting to the front to some sheetmetal between you and the drunks?

 

[akacastle]

^^^^^I was the only one at the intersection at the time. Yeah, I usually do split to the front for protection, and now that I come to think of it, being used to having cars behind me stopped for protection is probably why I didn't scan my six.

 

[R1-Limited]

Thanks for the reminder. MSF enforces this as well, always keep in gear. I think this is an area we all grow complacent in. I kick into neutral when I know it is a long light and all are lined up waiting behind me.

I always position myself to the right or left of front vehicle. What is and gets me nervous still is when I am next to the turning lane and in the front of the pack. I always Kick in gear and anticipate the dummy behind me to shoot forward thinking its green for us.

 

[Enchanter]

Thanks for the reminder. MSF enforces this as well, always keep in gear. I think this is an area we all grow complacent in. I kick into neutral when I know it is a long light and all are lined up waiting behind me.

I always position myself to the right or left of front vehicle. What is and gets me nervous still is when I am next to the turning lane and in the front of the pack. I always Kick in gear and anticipate the dummy behind me to shoot forward thinking its green for us.

If it makes you nervous (due to the added risk) why place yourself in that position in the first place?

 

[R1-Limited]

If it makes you nervous (due to the added risk) why place yourself in that position in the first place?

I rarely do, but like chance it occurs, I just get ready by not staying n the center of the lane, stay far left next to turn lane in case my exit is to jump out and turn left.

Its called thinking ahead and anticipating an exit strat

 

[Enchanter]

I don't understand how you call it chance. Didn't you place yourself there intentionally?

 

[R1-Limited]

I don't understand how you call it chance. Didn't you place yourself there intentionally?

You ever step on something barefoot even though you took all the precautions to not step on the sharp object? (Chance)

Chance as defined
chance (chns)
n.
1.
a. The unknown and unpredictable element in happenings that seems to have no assignable cause.
b. A force assumed to cause events that cannot be foreseen or controlled; luck: Chance will determine the outcome.
2. The likelihood of something happening; possibility or probability. Often used in the plural: Chances are good that you will win. Is there any chance of rain?
3. An accidental or unpredictable event.
4. A favorable set of circumstances; an opportunity: a chance to escape.
5. A risk or hazard; a gamble: took a chance that the ice would hold me.
6. Games A raffle or lottery ticket.
7. Baseball An opportunity to make a putout or an assist that counts as an error if unsuccessful.

Simply you are never 100% in control of the situation and by chance you may or may not be in the best situation possible. Thus the training of always looking/planning for that exit route

 

[Enchanter]

I understand what chance means.

My point is that you place a lot of emphasis on planning an escape route (rightfully so), but gloss over the planning to not place yourself in-between a turn lane and a lane going straight, when it is very easy to avoid doing that in the first place. Wouldn't preventing placing oneself in an area of higher risk hold a higher priority than planning an escape route once in the riskier location?

 

[R1-Limited]

I understand what chance means.

My point is that you place a lot of emphasis on planning an escape route, but gloss over the planning to not place yourself in-between a turn lane and a lane going straight, when it is very easy to avoid doing that in the first place.

Your right, and I am not glossing over it at all. What is happening here now is mute as I understand what it is your saying, I am not so sure you are understand what I am, so its mute as I believe I explained it pretty clearly, but will give one last time.

So in a multi lane yes, if possible you can prevent yourself from getting in the situation "IF CHANCE PERMITS" unforeseen situations, conditions that of which your never in control of happens.

If your in a single lane, with one turn lane, your SOL and nothing you can do.

Hypothetical, (Intersection is not) you traveling west on Mission College approaching Great America in the left lane (Two Lanes) on approach cars to the right make it impossible to merge right as traffic is packed of intel employees wanting to go home. You have but 1xx yards to either merge to the left two turning or get stuck in the far left What do you do?

You cannot predict everything. So that is where I will leave it, I hope you can at least consider that.

 

[Enchanter]

I believe that the word you are looking for is moot.

I can predict where a turn lane borders a non-turning lane. I will not end up in that area by chance, and am able to not place my motorcycle in the space between those lanes. One does not have to laneshare or split in those areas or circumstances.

You seem to be saying that a motorcyclist can end up in that space by chance. I contend that ending up in that area is a choice.

 

[R1-Limited]

Nope I was using Mute for a reason

I am glad you can predict any situation, thats new on me. Can you predict what I am going to have for lunch?

Not being Facetious on this at all, just making a Moot Point

I believe that the word you are looking for is moot.

I can predict where a turn lane borders a non-turning lane. I will not end up in that area by chance, and am able to not place my motorcycle in the space between those lanes. One does not have to laneshare or split in those areas or circumstances.

You seem to be saying that a motorcyclist can end up in that space by chance. I contend that ending up in that area is a choice.

 

[Enchanter]

Nope I was using Mute for a reason

I am glad you can predict any situation, thats new on me. Can you predict what I am going to have for lunch?

Not being Facetious on this at all, just making a Moot Point

Evidently you are unable to discuss the situation without resorting to insults, or take responsibility for where you end up on the road. You instead blame it on chance. that is pretty scarey. My signature has never been more appropriate.

 

[R1-Limited]

Evidently you are unable to discuss the situation without resorting to insults, or take responsibility for where you end up on the road. You instead blame it on chance. that is pretty scarey. My signature has never been more appropriate.

Apparently your ego doesn't allow you to see the trees in spite of the forest. I did not nor did I intend any disrespect or insult. I think this proves my point your not listening (In My own opinion and judgment only)

If you took it as that, my apologies, as it was not my intent.

If (and this is not insult) thinking of yourself as such the superior rider, then I bow to your extraordinary expertise in allow you to for see the future. I mean if you step back and look at it from my perspective as to what you are stipulating. Your pretty much telling me I am stupid and your so smart, now whom is insulting whom?

Thus my use if MUTE, as in the defined for MUTE
No harm no foul we can agree to disagree

 

[akacastle]

Strange, in my msf course I took about 3 years ago, they didn't mention even once the practice of keeping it in gear at a stop. I only know it from my brother when he took the class more than 20 years or so ago.

 

[Enchanter]

Strange, in my msf course I took about 3 years ago, they didn't mention even once the practice of keeping it in gear at a stop. I only know it from my brother when he took the class more than 20 years or so ago.

It isn't part of the MSF curriculum. My guess is that a Ridercoach casually mentioned it in class.

 

[sanjuro]

Your right, and I am not glossing over it at all. What is happening here now is mute as I understand what it is your saying, I am not so sure you are understand what I am, so its mute as I believe I explained it pretty clearly, but will give one last time.

So in a multi lane yes, if possible you can prevent yourself from getting in the situation "IF CHANCE PERMITS" unforeseen situations, conditions that of which your never in control of happens.

If your in a single lane, with one turn lane, your SOL and nothing you can do.

Hypothetical, (Intersection is not) you traveling west on Mission College approaching Great America in the left lane (Two Lanes) on approach cars to the right make it impossible to merge right as traffic is packed of intel employees wanting to go home. You have but 1xx yards to either merge to the left two turning or get stuck in the far left What do you do?

You cannot predict everything. So that is where I will leave it, I hope you can at least consider that.

I think what Enchanter was getting at is the removal of the concept of randomness from crash analysis.

I'll give you the craziest scenario possible, getting struck by lightning. That must be luck right? Well, did you know it was going to be a lightning storm? Were you riding in a lightning prone-area, like on top of an open ridge? Did you consider you are sitting on top of a hunk of metal?

Yes it might have been sheer bad luck you were struck by lightning, but in post-analysis, you might have increased your chances by not considering some factors.

It is literally easy to say it was chance that caused a crash. It is much harder to find the exact cause.

BTW, in your hypothetical circumstance, if I knew that a road is particularly bad at a certain time, I would avoid it at that time and choose an alternate route. If I was not familiar with the traffic conditions but I knew my route, I would be in the appropriate lane ahead of time. If I didn't know where I was going, I would be going slightly slower than normal in a middle lane so I could merge left or right, and I would be prepared to miss my turn rather than force a bad merge.

And in your case where it sounds like you were inattentive of your location and lane position, I would just slow down and stop if necessary rather than force a bad merge.

 

[R1-Limited]

sanjuro
I understood what enchanter was saying, I accepted it as I am understanding your explaining it to me and your scenario. We can hip-pity hop down the Variables and Conditions road all day long and miss that we are seeing and saying almost the same thing.

All I am stating is, we cannot predict the unpredictable, knowing roads well, understanding routes time of day is all fine and dandy and I agreed with enchanter that yes he was right in not putting yourself in those situations.

As in the case of my scenario walking around barefoot we all do it, we stub a toe, step in a rock all the while trying not to do so. Chance is part of the unpredictable nature of life and shit happens that we "CANNOT CONTROL" key words Cannot control.

I was simply trying to make a point, not write a book or start a crusade on cause and effect

We just lost a man of superior skill to something / condition / chance that why it happens. We can certainly say it was not from any lack of skill, we can say bad things happen and the unpredictability of it all IMHO strengthens my point.

 

[sanjuro]

sanjuro
I understood what enchanter was saying, I accepted it as I am understanding your explaining it to me and your scenario. We can hip-pity hop down the Variables and Conditions road all day long and miss that we are seeing and saying almost the same thing.

All I am stating is, we cannot predict the unpredictable, knowing roads well, understanding routes time of day is all fine and dandy and I agreed with enchanter that yes he was right in not putting yourself in those situations.

As in the case of my scenario walking around barefoot we all do it, we stub a toe, step in a rock all the while trying not to do so. Chance is part of the unpredictable nature of life and shit happens that we "CANNOT CONTROL" key words Cannot control.

I was simply trying to make a point, not write a book or start a crusade on cause and effect

We just lost a man of superior skill to something / condition / chance that why it happens. We can certainly say it was not from any lack of skill, we can say bad things happen and the unpredictability of it all IMHO strengthens my point.

It is an obvious point about chance and what we can and cannot control, but this is not the Philosophy forum, but Crash Analysis.

Someone could write "I was focused on the guard rail during my turn and I grabbed the front brake as hard I could" and I could respond with, "It is just chance you were target fixated, and some things you cannot control, like panic braking". I would be wrong.

At this point, you are arguing for your own ego's sake. I can write poetry about taking risks under an unknown sky, but I do not do this in Crash Analysis.

 

[R1-Limited]

It is an obvious point about chance and what we can and cannot control, but this is not the Philosophy forum, but Crash Analysis.

Someone could write "I was focused on the guard rail during my turn and I grabbed the front brake as hard I could" and I could respond with, "It is just chance you were target fixated, and some things you cannot control, like panic braking". I would be wrong.

At this point, you are arguing for your own ego's sake. I can write poetry about taking risks under an unknown sky, but I do not do this in Crash Analysis.

You could be correct on the ego part, knowing thyself its more about vindication I have no ego to bruise.
Back to my original statement, I stand

Thanks for the reminder. MSF enforces this as well, always keep in gear. I think this is an area we all grow complacent in. I kick into neutral when I know it is a long light and all are lined up waiting behind me.

I always position myself to the right or left of front vehicle. What is and gets me nervous still is when I am next to the turning lane and in the front of the pack. I always Kick in gear and anticipate the dummy behind me to shoot forward thinking its green for us. Disclaimer: I never try to be in this position, but shit happens