Laid her down on King St near CalTrain

[timzilla]

So I decided to enjoy the weather and ride around the town a bit. I was wrapping up the ride and heading back home.

I was heading south on King Street approaching the intersection near the caltrain station (4th?) with a clear green light for me when this idiot steps into the street. guess what he's doing? he's on the damn phone and not paying attention at all.

i was about 30 feet out and not going too fast.. maybe 25 mph, so I tapped the front brake and just immediately went down. I remember being completely stunned that the bike had went down so quickly and found myself skidding down the street, and my bike sliding ahead of me. We both came to a stop right near the corner and there were about 10 people who had witnessed the whole thing. Two really helpful guys came up and helped me get the bike to the side of the street.

But that guy on the phone? He'd completely vanished.

I looked back on the street, completely mystified how I'd gone down so fast. It was sunny, dry.. there was plenty of traction. Then i saw the skid mark from the front tire. It started right on the white paint of the crosswalk, and there was even a missing section of white paint.

So my assumption is that I hit the front brake with enough force to break the tire/paint loose - and just went down like that.

I was wearing my riding jacket, forcefield kneepads under my jeans and moto boots. I came out of it pretty OK... jammed my thumb on something, my left knee hurts and is swelling up and my shoulder is feeling pretty sore.

But I dont even want to think how bad off I'd been if i wasnt wearing gear, especially the kneepads. The kneepads definitely prevented a much more serious injury. (the odd thing is that theres not a single mark on my jeans)

Looking back on it - Im not sure what I could have done differently. I saw the situation developing with time to react. I didnt need to do a emergency stop but I had to do a hard stop. I didn't think about swerving instead of braking but i was on the right lane of the two lane street and I didn't immediately know if there was a car to my left so I may have not considered it at that moment and given that I still had ample braking distance.

The best I can take away from this is ... 1. crosswalk paint can't be counted on for braking traction and 2. gear definitely is the reason why im only sore all over and nothing worse.

and oh yeah.. guys on phones aren't paying fucking attention!!! i should have just run him down.

what do u all think?

 

[jh2586]

Glad you made it okay. Sounds like you GRABBED the front brakes and caused the forks to tuck. Most of the time riders misjudge how much they actually have to stop so they over-compensate the brakes. It's like driving a car; if someone suddenly pulls out in front of you, your natural instinct is to SLAM on the brakes (thus the vehicle having ABS, 9 times out of 10, you are fine). But more importantly, most of the time you don't get into a crash because you actually stopped WAY before colliding. This proves that we do not need to use the brakes NEARLY as much as we tend to.

With this being said, practice in an open parking lot on how to do an emergency stop (it's a lot harder than you think). Practice using both FRONT and REAR brakes with about 70% front and 30% rear. We as riders need to SQUEEZE the brakes and gently apply pressure (according to the situation) and not GRAB or JERK it.

 

[sanjuro]

I try to expect pedestrians to jump out in front of me. But 30 feet seems like a good cushion to react. I might not have even slowed down.

 

[ThumperX]

I try to expect pedestrians to jump out in front of me. But 30 feet seems like a good cushion to react. I might not have even slowed down.

This, in SF and especially around that area pedestrians are expected.

Do you think a swerve would have been a better solution?
Glad you're OK.

 

[Enchanter]

How far into the roadway was the pedestrian?

 

[oldapeman]

Two good outcomes: You did not get badly hurt, and you did not take out the pedestrian (even though he was clearly in the wrong). You erred on the side of minimizing injury due to your gear, and your actions.

Could you have done better? Maybe. Just maybe.

I agree that you should practice emergency braking using both brakes. They put them on there for a reason. Also, if you scrubbed off enough speed you might have been able to scoot around the walker.

You done good.

 

[sanjuro]

This, in SF and especially around that area pedestrians are expected.

Do you think a swerve would have been a better solution?
Glad you're OK.

Now someone has jumped out in front of you, the question is stop or avoid.

I think the plan to stop is fairly obvious, but obviously it is not always the best choice.

Besides that a lot of riders do not practice emergency braking enough to be competent, emergency braking can also be a driving reaction: a car is not small or agile enough to avoid a pedestrian or another vehicle, so instinctually, braking is the first reaction.

Now if you plan on avoiding a pedestrian, I wouldn't swerve necessarily. You might be able to lean slightly and throttle, and miss the walker entirely (and there is nothing like loud pipes that screams stop to oblivious pedestrians). Also by choosing to avoid, you are not braking, which seems to cause most of the straightline crashes under 30mph.

It is the 30 feet and 25mph in the OP that makes me think braking wasn't the answer. A lot of it is my lane setup. When rolling into an intersection, I ride where there is the most open space, towards the middle of the road. No one jumps out into the middle lane.

I would avoid riding in a position, like the rightmost lane, where I had to make a choice between stopping and swerving. I might be tempted to do both at the same time.

 

[mnb]

I'd recommend taking a class that does threshold braking drills. The Alameda County Sheriff's Regional Training Center in Dublin holds a class that does braking drills as well as brake and swerve and tight turning drills.

https://sheriffacademy.com/classes/evoc/evocDetail.php?1-DAY-CIVILIAN-MOTORCYCLE-2

It's a great one day class, taught at beginner, intermediate levels. Most should take the beginner class. Fairly experienced riders can go for Intermediate. The class is based on the training given to motorcops and the instructors are excellent. I know the braking drills there have definitely come in handy out in the twisties when I suddenly found something right in front of me.



Edit: I don't see the Advanced class mentioned on the website. It may have been discontinued...

 

[Enchanter]

What advice could we share with the OP that would help them to avoid needing to rely on superior riding skills?

 

[ThumperX]

What advice could we share with the OP that would help them to avoid needing to rely on superior riding skills?

Practice registering what it is you see. So often we see the hazard but fail to recognize it.

When you saw the person from 30 feet away that's when you should have decided he/she was a hazard.

Sharpen reaction times.Once you are practiced at looking for actions you can practice reacting to those actions. Remember those slappy patty cake games as a kid?


Never stop working on skills that will make you a superior rider. NEVER

 

[silverbelt]

So I decided to enjoy the weather and ride around the town a bit. I was wrapping up the ride and heading back home.

I was heading south on King Street approaching the intersection near the caltrain station (4th?) with a clear green light for me when this idiot steps into the street. guess what he's doing? he's on the damn phone and not paying attention at all.

i was about 30 feet out and not going too fast.. maybe 25 mph, so I tapped the front brake and just immediately went down. I remember being completely stunned that the bike had went down so quickly and found myself skidding down the street, and my bike sliding ahead of me. We both came to a stop right near the corner and there were about 10 people who had witnessed the whole thing. Two really helpful guys came up and helped me get the bike to the side of the street.

But that guy on the phone? He'd completely vanished.

I looked back on the street, completely mystified how I'd gone down so fast. It was sunny, dry.. there was plenty of traction. Then i saw the skid mark from the front tire. It started right on the white paint of the crosswalk, and there was even a missing section of white paint.

So my assumption is that I hit the front brake with enough force to break the tire/paint loose - and just went down like that.

I was wearing my riding jacket, forcefield kneepads under my jeans and moto boots. I came out of it pretty OK... jammed my thumb on something, my left knee hurts and is swelling up and my shoulder is feeling pretty sore.

But I dont even want to think how bad off I'd been if i wasnt wearing gear, especially the kneepads. The kneepads definitely prevented a much more serious injury. (the odd thing is that theres not a single mark on my jeans)

Looking back on it - Im not sure what I could have done differently. I saw the situation developing with time to react. I didnt need to do a emergency stop but I had to do a hard stop. I didn't think about swerving instead of braking but i was on the right lane of the two lane street and I didn't immediately know if there was a car to my left so I may have not considered it at that moment and given that I still had ample braking distance.

The best I can take away from this is ... 1. crosswalk paint can't be counted on for braking traction and 2. gear definitely is the reason why im only sore all over and nothing worse.

and oh yeah.. guys on phones aren't paying fucking attention!!! i should have just run him down.

what do u all think?

Thats a particularly nasty intersection, because alot of people are in a hurry to catch caltrain, or muni. Can't blame you for being upset, but you need be better aware of your surroundings and be able to react to the unexpected; the more familiar you are with a given area, the easier this is. I am glad you had full gear on, and its just soreness and not anything more serious.

 

[timzilla]

hey everyone - thanks for the feedback.

i'll readily admit that i'm a new rider. ive got about 2 years of riding so far - and i will also definitely say that my emergency stopping skills could use more work.

ive been sitting here at home thinking this scenario out over and over. i know i grabbed a good amount of brake, but i did not grab a lot. i had been riding for the past two hours. i had a good idea of how much braking traction there was.

instead - what i'm wondering is that i grabbed the brake on the very split second that the front tire had traveled over the white crosswalk paint and i went down just immediately.

i did not feel any type of skid from the front tire for even a single instant. i remember hitting then brake then in an instant i was on my back sliding down the road.

and looking back on the street where i went down, the skid mark clearly started immediately after the crosswalk paint. there was even a missing section of paint right where it started.

so my analysis of this was..

1) i clearly hit the brake at the worst possible instant when the front tire was over the crosswak paint
2) i likely hit the front brake too sharply and loaded the front tire on the paint beyond what was available.
3) i could have swerved to miss the pedestrian, but what I did not know were three things.. a) was there a car immediately to my left? b) would the pedestrian have continued walking forcing me to veer even further left, or make a decision to cut inside him to the right ... and what if the pedestrian saw me and immediately jumped back? i could have collided with him then.

so - like everyone has mentioned.. work on emergency stopping where i progressively load the brakes instead of sharply cutting into it, and evasion/swerving techniques.

thanks everyone!

 

[timzilla]

this particular post gave me a lot to think about - i think your suggestions are very solid (not to discount the other commentary tho!).

Now someone has jumped out in front of you, the question is stop or avoid.

I think the plan to stop is fairly obvious, but obviously it is not always the best choice.

Besides that a lot of riders do not practice emergency braking enough to be competent, emergency braking can also be a driving reaction: a car is not small or agile enough to avoid a pedestrian or another vehicle, so instinctually, braking is the first reaction.

Now if you plan on avoiding a pedestrian, I wouldn't swerve necessarily. You might be able to lean slightly and throttle, and miss the walker entirely (and there is nothing like loud pipes that screams stop to oblivious pedestrians). Also by choosing to avoid, you are not braking, which seems to cause most of the straightline crashes under 30mph.

It is the 30 feet and 25mph in the OP that makes me think braking wasn't the answer. A lot of it is my lane setup. When rolling into an intersection, I ride where there is the most open space, towards the middle of the road. No one jumps out into the middle lane.

I would avoid riding in a position, like the rightmost lane, where I had to make a choice between stopping and swerving. I might be tempted to do both at the same time.

 

[oldapeman]

The situation with the white paint you mention indicates a problem road surface, but that doesn't get you off the hook. Especially in an urban environment, a worn and damaged road surface is just part of the universe you must learn to live with. Yes, the detachment of the paint from the asphalt probably should not have happened, but it is still just one of those many things that are part of the playing field. Expect the unexpected. Be prepared for everything.

 

[timzilla]

that is true too.

 

[Flying Pig]

Did you happen to do any brake-related maintenance recently? There have been recorded instances showing that when a brake reservoir is overfilled, it can lock the wheel instantly. Not saying that you did that, but it is a possibility, especially if it was done recently

But painted surfaces generally suck enough already

 

[sanjuro]

ive been sitting here at home thinking this scenario out over and over. i know i grabbed a good amount of brake, but i did not grab a lot. i had been riding for the past two hours. i had a good idea of how much braking traction there was.

instead - what i'm wondering is that i grabbed the brake on the very split second that the front tire had traveled over the white crosswalk paint and i went down just immediately.

i did not feel any type of skid from the front tire for even a single instant. i remember hitting then brake then in an instant i was on my back sliding down the road.

With emergency stopping, another element is also controlling the bars. Locking up the brakes is a bad thing, but the other component in a crash is front wheel deflection.

When I have to emergency stop, I tense my arms and grip so I have strong control over the handlebars.

and looking back on the street where i went down, the skid mark clearly started immediately after the crosswalk paint. there was even a missing section of paint right where it started.

so my analysis of this was..

1) i clearly hit the brake at the worst possible instant when the front tire was over the crosswak paint
2) i likely hit the front brake too sharply and loaded the front tire on the paint beyond what was available.
3) i could have swerved to miss the pedestrian, but what I did not know were three things.. a) was there a car immediately to my left? b) would the pedestrian have continued walking forcing me to veer even further left, or make a decision to cut inside him to the right ... and what if the pedestrian saw me and immediately jumped back? i could have collided with him then.

so - like everyone has mentioned.. work on emergency stopping where i progressively load the brakes instead of sharply cutting into it, and evasion/swerving techniques.

thanks everyone!

Situational awareness is critical for safety.

You wrote that you were riding for several hours before the accident. I force myself to increase my awareness at the end of my rides, where I might be tempted to relax but I am actually the most tired and the least aware.

And obviously, knowing if there are cars around you is also critical.

As for practicing emergency braking, the other thing is the more you practice, the more awareness you will develop in an emergency. You might have missed something when you went into emergency mode. Like if you had slowed while on the crosswalk paint, then braked hard when you were back on asphalt, you might have had more control.

 

[Enchanter]

There is a whole lot of input in this thread focusing on the technique(s) related to emergency braking. This is a obviously a very important skill, but learning the judgement to avoid situations that require emergency braking is a hugely important skill.

Was the pedestrian already in the road before you saw him? What portion of the road were you riding in? Were you on the right side of your lane? Center? Left?

You also mentioned that you didn't know if there was a car to your immediate left. As mentioned here already, Situation Awareness is a huge part of motorcycling. This is not limited to the objects in front of you, but also those to the sides and rear as well.

What will you do in the future to avoid the need to use emergency braking to avoid a similar situation?

 

[Enchanter]

Did you happen to do any brake-related maintenance recently? There have been recorded instances showing that when a brake reservoir is overfilled, it can lock the wheel instantly.

I've never heard of an overfilled reservoir causing a wheel to instantly lock. It is usually a gradual (inadvertent) increase in braking force after a few miles of riding.

 

[ThumperX]

Another thing:
What gear were you in?
In the city I often ride in a lower gears for 2 reasons. First I have power at the ready to add if necessary. Secondly, I have fairly instant response to easing the throttle; however, this can backfire if you suddenly "chop" the throttle and grab brake at the same time.