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First Crash Ever :(

jh2586

jh2586

New member
Joined
Apr 5, 2012
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Moto(s)
'16 Ninja 300
'17 Z900
'19 ZX6R
'20 Ninja 400
Name
Jeff
Hey guys. So first off, I want to say that I am absolutely GREATFUL that I walked away from the crash with little to no injuries at all. Just a few MINOR scrapes (due to not wearing protective pants). I had ATGATT everywhere else though.

I was on a freeway onramp (680 southbound) in Danville from Crow Canyon Rd getting ready to ride down to San Leandro. I know what I did wrong and it was 100% my fault. I was trying to take the turn harder than I should have (riding outside of my limit aka squid). I had a pretty extreme lean angle (at least for my comfort) and about halfway through the turn, my bike just dropped (lowsided) and it slid about 30 feet into the guard rail. There was no gravel, dirt or wet surfaces on the road and the road was perfectly paved imo. Maybe I didn't give it enough throttle or maybe I gave it too much throttle. Nevertheless, lesson learned here:

NEVER RIDE OUTSIDE YOUR LIMITS!!!

The bike took some decent fairing damage because it slid and hit the guard rail. There seems to not be ANY frame or mechanical damage. When the tow truck came, I even road the bike up the ramp onto the flatbed so the engine, transmission, clutch, brakes etc.. seem to be okay. I have to replace basically ALL fairings except the rear tail and also have to replace the headlight, brake lever, right side foot peg and kick stand.

Anyways, once again, DO NOT RIDE OUTSIDE YOUR LIMITS!!!

Jeff H.
 
Oh also, don't put your phone inside the compartment in the back, at least not for my bike. It opened right up and my phone did a highside towards the pavement and died..

Now, I have to pay a $100 insurance deductible from Verizon.
 
No brake or chop throttle. The more I think about it, I think I didn't give it enough throttle and the bike dropped because lean vs gyro effect
 
I very much doubt that, unless you were going walking speed and the bike fell over. It's FAR more likely you chopped or added throttle abruptly, braked or there was something slippery on the ramp (pretty likely given how on-ramps collect crap. Glad you're relatively unscathed.
 
Check the direction of the scratches on the bike and which scratch is on top of the other in order to determine the series of events.

Which bike were you riding? Did you lose the front or the rear? (Probably the front?) Tuck front or washout front? Suspension settings? Tire pressures? Direction of turn? More exact location of turn?

Glad you're ok. Sorry for the 3rd degree, I am simply curious.
 
Maybe I didn't give it enough throttle or maybe I gave it too much throttle. Nevertheless,...
Click to expand...
ALWAYS take instances like this and find the action that caused or lead up to the cause of the incident. Don't brush it off. If you can't learn from it, then there's a good chance it'll happen again. Cold tires, inappropriate place for riding like that, throttle input, body positioning... it all has things to consider.

For those that moderate this thread to the ground, this is a very useful piece of advice in avoiding further similar accidents. If you don't learn, nothing will change.
 
Sorry to hear about the crash (and this next part is a joke)... Now you'll have something to spend your money on, though!
I agree with the previous statements: don't brush this off. Figure out why it happened.
FWIW, you never want to add gas and lean angle at the same time. Once you get cranked over, you just want maintenance throttle to keep your speed steady and your weight distribution a hair towards the rear tire. Hence, I don't follow the line of thinking that you didn't give it enough gas.

Bike randomly dropping is usually a front end slide. When those happen bad enough to take you out, it's boom you're on the ground. When the rear leaves, you typically have just enough time (at least) to feel it go (of course, this statement comes from mucho crashing experience, so maybe you haven't learned the feel yet).

How long had you been riding prior to getting to that off ramp?
Were you off the seat, or centered?
If you were off the seat, were your shoulders and head pointed to the inside of the turn (like, were you looking at the road from underneath your mirror), or were they still up and looking through the windscreen?

What were your thoughts (if you can recall) immediately prior to crashing?
 
Crash Gordon said:
Sorry to hear about the crash (and this next part is a joke)... Now you'll have something to spend your money on, though!
I agree with the previous statements: don't brush this off. Figure out why it happened.
FWIW, you never want to add gas and lean angle at the same time. Once you get cranked over, you just want maintenance throttle to keep your speed steady and your weight distribution a hair towards the rear tire. Hence, I don't follow the line of thinking that you didn't give it enough gas.

Bike randomly dropping is usually a front end slide. When those happen bad enough to take you out, it's boom you're on the ground. When the rear leaves, you typically have just enough time (at least) to feel it go (of course, this statement comes from mucho crashing experience, so maybe you haven't learned the feel yet).

How long had you been riding prior to getting to that off ramp?
Were you off the seat, or centered?
If you were off the seat, were your shoulders and head pointed to the inside of the turn (like, were you looking at the road from underneath your mirror), or were they still up and looking through the windscreen?

What were your thoughts (if you can recall) immediately prior to crashing?
Click to expand...

Well, like I said, I was at a pretty good lean angle. From what I can recall, I was leaning hard, looking into the turn I believe from under the mirror, my knee was dragging slightly then suddenly, the bike just dropped (lowside) instantly...... no idea why. I didn't even feel anything lose traction. It just FELL lol..

Honestly, I have no idea why, I mean this IS my first crash. I'm willing to bet the tires were not warmed up. But my house is a good 3-4 miles away from the on-ramp so the tires should have been warm by that time. I've been riding for a solid 3 years (off and on for 8). Maybe my body positioning had something to do with it, I wasn't hanging off the bike much tbh... maybe a little.
 
sorry to hear about the bail.....this is why all should beware on/off ramps:

antifreeze
oil
water
gravel/dirt
crud
cold tires
off camber/etc.

It's why I quit "cloverleafing" back in the day (racing w/buds around cloverleaf's.)

fwiw/imho...
 
jh2586 said:
Well, like I said, I was at a pretty good lean angle. From what I can recall, I was leaning hard, looking into the turn I believe from under the mirror, my knee was dragging slightly then suddenly, the bike just dropped (lowside) instantly...... no idea why. I didn't even feel anything lose traction. It just FELL lol..

Honestly, I have no idea why, I mean this IS my first crash. I'm willing to bet the tires were not warmed up. But my house is a good 3-4 miles away from the on-ramp so the tires should have been warm by that time. I've been riding for a solid 3 years (off and on for 8). Maybe my body positioning had something to do with it, I wasn't hanging off the bike much tbh... maybe a little.
Click to expand...

3-4 miles does not sound like enough to warm your tires up. Especially if you were just cruising those 3-4 miles which I assume you were. Also how much were you hanging off the bike. One butt cheek?
 
EastBayDave said:
sorry to hear about the bail.....this is why all should beware on/off ramps:

antifreeze
oil
water
gravel/dirt
crud
cold tires
off camber/etc.

It's why I quit "cloverleafing" back in the day (racing w/buds around cloverleaf's.)

fwiw/imho...
Click to expand...

Man, I miss cloverleafing.
I had a buddy back in the late nineties or early 2000's (can't remember exactly) that had a ninth floor apartment that looked out onto a cloverleaf... WITH A POLICE STATION ON THE OTHER SIDE.
Somehow we managed to never get busted.

Back to the point: Unless you're pushing it, 3-4 miles doesn't sound like quite enough to really get your tires cooking.
You may have just hit something slippery.
You may have been riding twisted (where your butt is off, but your body isn't off as much as you think or needs to be) and you just "ran out of tire."

It may have been just a perfect storm sort of deal, where your tires weren't quite up to temp, your body position wasn't quite on, and you chopped the throttle slightly, which made your front end push.

I know you say you didn't chop the throttle, but really, chopping the throttle is *so* instinctual that it happens without you realizing it. Teaching your subconscious proper throttle control takes concerted effort, and is harder than you think. Spend a day in the canyons (or most preferably, on the track) focusing on a steady throttle hand, and you'll be amazed (and maybe even frustrated) at how much you actually screw it up once you get up towards the boundaries of your limits/comfort zone.

Another question: You say you were up around/above your limits. Does that mean you were fully into "chicken strip" territory on your tires? Have you been progressively approaching your limits (with this particular set of tires) or did you just go out and blast it into this corner? You may have gotten cranked over onto some "brand new" unscuffed rubber. Most mortals need to wear their chicken strips down bit at a time or they will get all the way to the slippery part of the tire, and down they go.
 
Isn't this just a judgement issue?

The 'cold tires' discussion makes me giggle. Is haulling ass on an on-ramp with HOT tures really appropriate? Blaming the environment doesn't really help. What skill, or skills can we share that would help the OP avoid this Gould they find themselves in a similar situation in the future.
 
Yes, it is a judgment issue, but to my awareness, that isn't the point of this forum.
Clearly the answer is "slow down" or "go ride the track."

That doesn't help anyone understand the mechanics of how/why the crash occurred. If the OP (or anyone, for that matter) decides they want to push their limits, I'd rather them have the knowledge of how to make it as safe as possible, as well as the reasons why it might not be a good idea.
That seems hard to impart without discussing the potential factors of the incident, beyond that of just saying "slow the eff down, and you won't crash" (especially since that was basically the OP's opening statement anyway; seems like repeating that would be beating a dead horse a bit).
 
Stay to the left wheel line and inside to avoid the slick stuff.

Glad your AOK.
 
Crash Gordon said:
Yes, it is a judgment issue, but to my awareness, that isn't the point of this forum.
Clearly the answer is "slow down" or "go ride the track."

That doesn't help anyone understand the mechanics of how/why the crash occurred. If the OP (or anyone, for that matter) decides they want to push their limits, I'd rather them have the knowledge of how to make it as safe as possible, as well as the reasons why it might not be a good idea.
That seems hard to impart without discussing the potential factors of the incident, beyond that of just saying "slow the eff down, and you won't crash" (especially since that was basically the OP's opening statement anyway; seems like repeating that would be beating a dead horse a bit).
Click to expand...

Helping someone understand the mechanics of how and why the crash occured can be beneficial, and is frequently discussed first in the CA Forum. Wouldn't it make more sense to discuss how to avoid getting into this or a similar situation in the first place?

I find that "slow down" and "take it to the track (or dirt)" are hollow and frequently useless bits of advice. Neither one mentions or implies a skill that can be applied immediately.
 
I'm going to go to a very awkward place so don't assume I'm saying anything about the size of your nuts.

You may be right that you were overriding your ability. In fact, you hint to what may be your real issue:

You might have been riding like you were going too fast when in fact--you were going too slow. Often we think we're tearing Rossi a new one when in fact we're not even close to hauling the mail. Your intimation is that you were going too slow and you may be right, you may have simply tried to hang off and drag knee (looking under the mirror) and simply pulled the bike to the ground by overestimating your need for lean.

It's easy to overestimate our speed. We readily think we're going sooo fast that things are close to the edge when in fact we're not there yet. Remember, running wide and hitting things is more likely than getting a left turner across your bow. Why do those folks run wide? Because they think they are going too fast to make the turn and won't do the work to get it done. In your case...you might have simply been working too hard. You thought you were going too fast when in fact you were...wait for it...going too slow--for your body positioning.
 
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