First Crash Ever :(

[OneRedLT4]

Isn't this just a judgement issue?

The 'cold tires' discussion makes me giggle. Is haulling ass on an on-ramp with HOT tures really appropriate? Blaming the environment doesn't really help. What skill, or skills can we share that would help the OP avoid this Gould they find themselves in a similar situation in the future.

Glad someone is getting a giggle from someone's mishap. The OP didn't seem to have much question about what happened.Seemed to own it and not place blame. Chances for avoiding loss of the tire's grip on an on ramp in the future (or anywhere else for that matter) can be greatly enhanced with knowledge by the rider that may not already know when tires are warmed up.

is it more appropriate? No, but then you're merely stating the rider shouldn't be riding like that on freeway on ramps, and that is not helpful. Skills that you seem to be referring to aren't always physical. Mental skills are also needed and that comes from experience and knowledge.

 

[BigRich]

Funny, I take that same entrance every other day and I have yet to come close to putting a knee down there...you must've been hauling some. Then again, my sense of mortality has gone up with age (read, I have c-strips and am ok with them).

-rich

 

[Enchanter]

Glad someone is getting a giggle from someone's mishap.

Either your reading comprehension is low, or you are attempting to put words in my mouth to discredit me. Personal attacks are not allowed in CA.

Further discussion related to the guidelines of this forum, or its moderation should be discussed in the Website/Geek speak Forum, and not in individual threads in CA.

The OP didn't seem to have much question about what happened.Seemed to own it and not place blame. Chances for avoiding loss of the tire's grip on an on ramp in the future (or anywhere else for that matter) can be greatly enhanced with knowledge by the rider that may not already know when tires are warmed up.

is it more appropriate? No, but then you're merely stating the rider shouldn't be riding like that on freeway on ramps, and that is not helpful. Skills that you seem to be referring to aren't always physical. Mental skills are also needed and that comes from experience and knowledge.

This isn't an issue of whether the OP owned it or not, I'm hinting/asking that we guide this thread (and forum) towards the mental aspect of crash prevention.

Riding on the street in a manner that requires tires to be up to temperature to avoid a crash is a judgement issue. Also, once the tires are brought up, it generally dilutes the discussion and takes the focus away from judgement. We already see that starting in this thread.

If we are to believe that the OP did not brake or adjust the throttle, and that the bike instantly fell without warning, there is a possibility that he simply leaned too far for the traction available.

Another phrase that is worth addressing is: Never ride outside your limits. What exactly does that mean? How does a rider know where their limits are? How does a rider know when they are riding outside their limits? Are there clues prior to a crash?

 

[CaptCrash]

Riding outside your limits is a bit of a cop out. First, in this case, I'm not convinced the OP was outside his 'limits'. I think he was within his limits and the bikes limits. I think he overestimated where he was on the speed/traction/lean scale. I think it's not exceeding the limit I think it's mistaking where the limit is. By misjudging the situation he got himself in a position where he literally dropped the bike.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

Having ridden with Jeff, I'd say he's got solid skills, FWIW.
In this instance, my own experience with cloverleafs, is that lean angle needs to be paid attention to, since they're off camber. Too much lean angle for the speed and the camber can put you on the ground. I know this, cuz I did it in 5a at T-Hill a couple years back.

The other thing is that there could easily have been a small amount of diesel fuel or coolant on the road, and in small enough quantities, not easily seen. I don't imagine there was much opportunity to examine the road in detail, as that's a pretty busy ramp.

Jeff, I'd agree that there's a chance you may have chopped the throttle just a tad, without being aware that's what happened. I'm really glad you're OK, and when you get your bike fixed, getting out to do a track day to learn good throttle control, as well as body positioning, would be a good thing.

 

[OneRedLT4]

Either your reading comprehension is low, or you are attempting to put words in my mouth to discredit me. Personal attacks are not allowed in CA.

Further discussion related to the guidelines of this forum, or its moderation should be discussed in the Website/Geek speak Forum, and not in individual threads in CA.



This isn't an issue of whether the OP owned it or not, I'm hinting/asking that we guide this thread (and forum) towards the mental aspect of crash prevention.

Riding on the street in a manner that requires tires to be up to temperature to avoid a crash is a judgement issue. Also, once the tires are brought up, it generally dilutes the discussion and takes the focus away from judgement. We already see that starting in this thread.

If we are to believe that the OP did not brake or adjust the throttle, and that the bike instantly fell without warning, there is a possibility that he simply leaned too far for the traction available.

Another phrase that is worth addressing is: Never ride outside your limits. What exactly does that mean? How does a rider know where their limits are? How does a rider know when they are riding outside their limits? Are there clues prior to a crash?

No personal attacks, just pointing out that there are other views that can be looked at and used to help in avoidance, not just one poster's point. I guess a judgement call could be all that led up to the accident, but then I didn't see that as helpful.

 

[Baptistro]

No personal attacks, just pointing out that there are other views that can be looked at and used to help in avoidance, not just one poster's point. I guess a judgement call could be all that led up to the accident, but then I didn't see that as helpful.

I am glad you have an opinion. However, this is not the platform for a discussion with the moderators about what is and what isn't appropriate in this forum. Enchanter has made it abundantly clear what is and what is not acceptable. He specifically mods this forum because we know he can maintain our vision for this forum. Continued posting in this fashion will lead to removal of access to this particular forum. Certain specific forums on this board have much more stringent rules for a reason. Abide by them or your access will be removed.

 

[Tharkûn]

I assume you're talking about the WB Crow Canyon ramp. That ramp (as with other cloverleafs) drops away rapidly and that could caused you to gain speed even with a constant throttle. Not to mention cloverleafs are usually covered in crap that you can't see, not the place to be pushing it.

 

[TT03gsxr]

The OP says he knows what he did wrong in post#1, but also makes it clear in post# 11 that since it was his first crash, he doesn't know what happened. This is a bit confusing to me. I hope that the OP will consider finding out what happened so that he will know for sure what he actually did wrong. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't consider the first crash to be a rider's "coming of age" event. Rather, it can be one of many stepping points to learn more.

Now a question: Was it the 250 that went down? I remember another thread in which Gary J had marked up a picture and circled the vulnerable scraping points on the ninja which, at high lean angles, could cause the rider to "lever the bike off the tire." That would result in an instant lowside at any speed.

Have you looked at the direction and order of occurrence (which is on top of which) of any scratches on the bike? The first scratches will tell you which wheel went down first if which wheel is still a question. Let's say, for example, you had a rear wheel slide- you might expect to see moon shaped scratches near the tail of the bike. Let's say your front washed out- you might expect to see vertical scratches from the initial impact from the front stepping out under horizontal scratches from the whole bike sliding along the ground. I am by no means a forensic expert, but the directionality of the first scratch seems to leave little to interpretation.

If the scratches confuse you, you could post some pictures of the scratches on your bike and we all can take a look. Up to you.

 

[jh2586]

The OP says he knows what he did wrong in post#1, but also makes it clear in post# 11 that since it was his first crash, he doesn't know what happened. This is a bit confusing to me. I hope that the OP will consider finding out what happened so that he will know for sure what he actually did wrong. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't consider the first crash to be a rider's "coming of age" event. Rather, it can be one of many stepping points to learn more.

Now a question: Was it the 250 that went down? I remember another thread in which Gary J had marked up a picture and circled the vulnerable scraping points on the ninja which, at high lean angles, could cause the rider to "lever the bike off the tire." That would result in an instant lowside at any speed.

Have you looked at the direction and order of occurrence (which is on top of which) of any scratches on the bike? The first scratches will tell you which wheel went down first if which wheel is still a question. Let's say, for example, you had a rear wheel slide- you might expect to see moon shaped scratches near the tail of the bike. Let's say your front washed out- you might expect to see vertical scratches from the initial impact from the front stepping out under horizontal scratches from the whole bike sliding along the ground. I am by no means a forensic expert, but the directionality of the first scratch seems to leave little to interpretation.

If the scratches confuse you, you could post some pictures of the scratches on your bike and we all can take a look. Up to you.

First off, in post #1, I stated that I knew what I did wrong and that was I took the turn too fast when I wasn't capable of doing so at my skill level. So the misinterpretation is, I know in the sense of judgement, not technicality.

Secondly, it wasn't the Ninja, it was my CBR 954. I will post pictures up later tonight when I get the chance to. There is NO tail section damage at all, but the exhaust (right side)

 

[gbstone]

Something to consider, if you don't know what caused the crash you should invest in riding school, you should know why you went down and can better analyze a close call or crash after the fact. Maybe more important, the training you will learn will provide you skills to help get out of trouble......maybe with more experience you wouldn't have charged the off-ramp in the first place. Try Yamaha riding school, Keigwins, Ken Hill-personal coach, Keith Code's California Superbike School etc.......learn and have more fun.