First Crash is The Hardest

[CaptCrash]

Expect the unexpected...like a meteor falling out of space and landing in front of you?

If a driver is operating in an erratic manner in front of you that should turn on your radar and he shouldn't be able to "surprise" you into hitting him...his behavior (stupid) told you to expect a problem. This wasn't a blue sky lightening strike...stupid drivers do stupid things.

Expectation fulfilled.

 

[Teh]

I think you can refine your lesson a bit.

Expect the unexpected is a good mantra, but it doesn't do much good without some other components.

How long have you been driving or riding in freeway traffic? People do a lot of dumb things, but with experience and analysis, you can learn to expect some relatively common behaviors in certain situations. Expecting the unexpected is only part of the lesson. Analyzing situations and behaviors, and recognizing and preparing for likely scenarios will get you a lot farther. If you don't have a lot of freeway miles (I'd say at least 50k, in whatever vehicle), some of the things can surprise you. But you'll hear experienced freeway travelers talk about near misses and how they "knew this guy was going to do such and such." The key is that the "unexpected" was not only expected, but accounted for and they were able to react accordingly in time. Learning those patterns comes from experience, though.

Usually, recognizing an erratic driver and putting more distance between them and yourself will greatly increase your odds of avoiding an incident with them. Bad/dangerous drivers give clues, like diving into an exit, or drifting and swerving in their lane, or slaloming through traffic. Our eyes pick up on the motion that doesn't fit with the expected flow. Once you pick up on a dangerous driver, you must monitor their behavior and take steps to distance yourself from them.

Also, parking lot drills on swerving would help. Or, you can practice by dodging objects like manholes or just dots in the road. Just don't go down doing it!

I mentioned target fixation, which is a constant battle for newer riders (I consider myself one). I can hear you verbally reacting to the situation, which indicates that you probably locked on to the car and hitting it was a foregone conclusion in your mind. Training yourself to rip your eyes away from the threat, and looking where you want to go instead and piloting the bike to go there will save your butt.

Thank you! Lots to practice and to digest here.

 

[Teh]

Expect the unexpected...like a meteor falling out of space and landing in front of you?

If a driver is operating in an erratic manner in front of you that should turn on your radar and he shouldn't be able to "surprise" you into hitting him...his behavior (stupid) told you to expect a problem. This wasn't a blue sky lightening strike...stupid drivers do stupid things.

Expectation fulfilled.

Thank you, CaptCrash, for your input.

 

[Teh]

This is a great thought, but it isn't really going to help you should you find yourself in a similar situation in the future. You need to have a plan of some sort. A plan to execute..

Thank you, Enchanter.

Place more space between you and the cars ahead.
Apply the brakes sooner and/or harder.
Swerve around the hazard if there isn't enough space to stop.

I really like the plan you wrote.

To others that want to comment or post:
Crash Analysis is not about fault, it is about finding a way to avoid this crash in the first place. Let's focus our advice on that, and not what the limo driver should have done.

Another for you on this comment. Is there anyway I can remove the poll? Some one already said the poll does not make a good sense.

 

[Teh]

While I agree it is the limo's fault to the greatest extent, I also believe target fixation played a big roll here. You were going an appropriate speed and had a good buffer initially. You had several seconds to react by my count.

I was caught off guard

I see the limo pull into your path around 1:00. At this point, the appropriate action would be to slow your acceleration. You seemed to do that. At 1:02 to 1:03 I'd reasonably be expecting you to figure out that he is slowing and begin your reaction. That left seconds 1:04 and 1:05 to make an evasive maneuver (along with your braking that should have began somewhere in the 1:02-1:03 section. The driver is continually moving to the left, so your logic should have told you to swerve to the right. The red car was still in front of you enough to gauge that you had room. Instead you were fixated on the limo and followed it to the left where you eventually collided..

As I said in the video that I assume the 2 lanes were 'no stopping to pay toll' lanes. It was too late for me to swerve right. I was at 12 mph when I rear ended the limo (see last video shot) but there was a momentum behind it.

I could see your shadow in the last second or two and it was not moving at all. You were locked on target. You also had room to swerve to the left at the last second (those little posts are meant to be run over) and you could have gone there. As is often said, swerving is often the best way to avoid an accident over threshold braking..

Can't agree more.

I know this is armchair quarterbacking, but knowing what the correct evasive maneuver would be is the best way to learn how to avoid this in the future. This goes for any type of vehicle. I've learned most of what I know from driving emergency vehicles for going on 10 years and numerous classes on emergency vehicle operations.

I had a recent moment when I was caught off guard the other night. I commute home at 3am and am typically pretty tired. I had about a four second distance behind on a car two lanes over while I was in the fast lane on 101 going about 80mph. I notice the car get over a lane towards me and it perked me up a little and subconsciously I began slowing down. Then the car came into my lane while slowing and I was on the brakes. Next thing I know the car continues on into the median wall and hits so hard it's right tires are lifted up a good two feet off the ground. My heart is blasting through my chest, but my eyes were instantly on my right mirror and checked my blind spot and somehow my arms were already steering me over one, then two lanes to the right. I can only attribute this to the experience I've had dealing with incidents like this and the training I had for swerving to avoid an accident. I know my internal voice was not able to say "ok, slow down, now swerve right" as there was just not enough time. The entire thing happened in about 3-4 seconds. If I had less of a gap on the car, it may not have been avoidable.

Anyways, good luck on recovering and I hope they find the limo driver at fault. He sure was an asshole as well. You may want to show your video to an attorney and see what they think, or else maybe see if some of the LEOs here could give you some input at who's legally at fault.

Thanks for sharing. Everyone one of these crash reports helps as a learning experience to all.

Wow!

 

[Teh]

I think you can refine your lesson a bit.

Expect the unexpected is a good mantra, but it doesn't do much good without some other components.

How long have you been driving or riding in freeway traffic? People do a lot of dumb things, but with experience and analysis, you can learn to expect some relatively common behaviors in certain situations. Expecting the unexpected is only part of the lesson. Analyzing situations and behaviors, and recognizing and preparing for likely scenarios will get you a lot farther. If you don't have a lot of freeway miles (I'd say at least 50k, in whatever vehicle), some of the things can surprise you. But you'll hear experienced freeway travelers talk about near misses and how they "knew this guy was going to do such and such." The key is that the "unexpected" was not only expected, but accounted for and they were able to react accordingly in time. Learning those patterns comes from experience, though.

Usually, recognizing an erratic driver and putting more distance between them and yourself will greatly increase your odds of avoiding an incident with them. Bad/dangerous drivers give clues, like diving into an exit, or drifting and swerving in their lane, or slaloming through traffic. Our eyes pick up on the motion that doesn't fit with the expected flow. Once you pick up on a dangerous driver, you must monitor their behavior and take steps to distance yourself from them.

Also, parking lot drills on swerving would help. Or, you can practice by dodging objects like manholes or just dots in the road. Just don't go down doing it!

I mentioned target fixation, which is a constant battle for newer riders (I consider myself one). I can hear you verbally reacting to the situation, which indicates that you probably locked on to the car and hitting it was a foregone conclusion in your mind. Training yourself to rip your eyes away from the threat, and looking where you want to go instead and piloting the bike to go there will save your butt.

Very well said - Thank you CABilly. I just past my 2nd winter commuting to SF to work.

 

[JMardy]

Do you cover your brake when you ride?
Have you thought about doing a Total Control class:
http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/

 

[rodr]

One thing that really stands out for me in the video is the brake lights ahead were virtually invisible with the sun behind you. This is one of those things that's easy to miss but adds a lot of risk, and calls for slowing down and increasing following distance. Add to that lane merges and splits, idiot driver and a toll booth ahead -- slow down.

Aside from that: most crashes result from a combination of events. You can usually get away with doing something risky if nothing unexpected happens. But sooner or later, the unexpected does happen. Expecting it is a good lesson.

 

[Teh]

Do you cover your brake when you ride?
Have you thought about doing a Total Control class:
http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/

JMardy, what do you mean by 'cover your brake when riding'?

I will take a good look at the Total Control class web site when I have more time - Thank you.

 

[Teh]

One thing that really stands out for me in the video is the brake lights ahead were virtually invisible with the sun behind you. This is one of those things that's easy to miss but adds a lot of risk, and calls for slowing down and increasing following distance. Add to that lane merges and splits, idiot driver and a toll booth ahead -- slow down.

Yes, the limo's brake lights were hard to see in the sun -- Every morning when I ride through the same spot where I crashed I always stay in the right lane. I learned my lesson.

Aside from that: most crashes result from a combination of events. You can usually get away with doing something risky if nothing unexpected happens. But sooner or later, the unexpected does happen. Expecting it is a good lesson.

rodr, I agree I see risky riders splitting lane so fast passing me and take a huge risk needlessly. Good thing that no cars change lane unexpectedly most of the time. I just could not imagine when the unexpected does happen.

 

[Teh]

One thing, I noticed was that the Limo driver said at 1:45 that his car broke down. However, after giving his testimony to the CHP he just drove off?
If it truly broke down why not park on the right shoulder in the first place?

I would think that since the Limo was not a carpool (no passengers). He may not have a transponder (electric toll pay device). At the last minute he saw that the regular toll was not busy so he made a quick decision that he rather merge illegally through the marked area to the toll lane. But he had to slow down to the incoming traffic sticking out half of limo into the carpool lane.

 

[JMardy]

JMardy, what do you mean by 'cover your brake when riding'?

I will take a good look at the Total Control class web site when I have more time - Thank you.

I mean, do you always ride with two (or whatever) fingers over your front brake lever? Doing so can buy you time/distance when an emergency stop is needed.

 

[Enchanter]

Yes, the limo's brake lights were hard to see in the sun -- Every morning when I ride through the same spot where I crashed I always stay in the right lane. I learned my lesson.

What lesson is that? If you think the lesson is to stay in the right lane, I think that you are totally missing the real issue.

You misread the situation, and didn't take any evasive action until too late.

 

[islemann]

While the limo driver did pull a bone-head move...you were (as always) responsible for not boinking the back of the vehicle in front of you. You lost your situational awareness and failed to read the developing situation correctly, then you failed to act to avoid the crash. You had plenty of chance to slow or to swerve or both.Plenty as in multiple seconds. I'm guessing that you don't have much in the way of riding experience. The lesson you should take from this - you need more skills training and more saddle time.

 

[Teh]

What lesson is that? If you think the lesson is to stay in the right lane, I think that you are totally missing the real issue.

You misread the situation, and didn't take any evasive action until too late.

Can't agree with you more, Enchanter.

 

[Teh]

I mean, do you always ride with two (or whatever) fingers over your front brake lever? Doing so can buy you time/distance when an emergency stop is needed.

JMardy, Yes, most of the time I ride with 2 fingers over my front brake lever - Thank you for bringing this up. It is very efficient when an emergency stop is needed.

 

[Teh]

Since most friends in this forum seem to concentrate on a crash analysis on a motorcycle point of view, and the poll seems to suggest accordingly, I have a question.

When and where does the law apply to a case of an obstruction of traffic?Please keep in mind that the limo was illegally, knowingly driving in a carpool lane(from the beginning of the video), and simply slowing down unexpectedly when trying to get back to a toll lane.

 

[Enchanter]

The Crash Analysis forum is completely dedicated to what the rider could have or should have done to avoid the crash. Legal fault doesn't matter here.

The fact of the matter is that as motorcyclists, we can be seriously injured, or loose our life when involved in even the smallest crash. While it may help our families to blame someone, it would all be a non-issue had we been able to prevent the crash in the first place. Fault doesn't matter once we are dead or permanently injured.

 

[Outta Control]

The Crash Analysis forum is completely dedicated to what the rider could have or should have done to avoid the crash. Legal fault doesn't matter here.

The fact of the matter is that as motorcyclists, we can be seriously injured, or loose our life when involved in even the smallest crash. While it may help our families to blame someone, it would all be a non-issue had we been able to prevent the crash in the first place. Fault doesn't matter once we are dead or permanently injured.

+1

No wonder you are the Mod

 

[Teh]

+1

No wonder you are the Mod

Completely agree