First Accident Lowside on Black Rd

[IpseDixit]

So I had my first accident yesterday on Black Rd. I'm still piecing it back together and learning what went wrong exactly.

I was out riding with two other friends running in the middle of the pack and this was my first time on this road.

Accident happened on a hard blind uphill right hand turn. First mistake was cutting too sharply into the turn. Normally I would stay to the outside of the turn as much as possible but as this was a one lane road and a blind corner I decided to cut sharply towards the edge of the road.

After entering the turn I found that it continued much sharper and steeper than I was prepared for. I'm still not sure what caused my rear tire to slide out from under me. I keep replaying it in my mind but it happened so fast I can't remember exactly what was happening. I know I was leaned over too far that was my biggest mistake. If I hadn't taken the turn so aggressively at the start I would have made it through no problem.

End result was a friction burn on my knees, some scuffs on the palms of my gloves, and several deep scratches in the helmet visor. Kevlar jeans did their job and didn't rip. I'm a bit sore today but that's to be expected.

The bike is OK as well. Lower fairing is scratched pretty bad, reflector on the frame is ground down, and some scratches in the upper fairings. No mechanical damage, and I was able to ride home no problem (well besides the slightly obstructed vision from the scratches in the visor).

My friend who was following was recording but he was too far back to capture the accident. Didn't take any photos of the scene either as I was a bit rattled and thinking more about whether I was OK and then whether the bike was OK.

Lesson learned: ride less aggressively on unfamiliar roads and ride at my own pace.

 

[Cincinnatus]

Your first accident, or your first accident on Black Rd?

Yeah, your lesson-learned is correct. Ride your own ride, know the road if possible, and never ride aggressively when you can't see where you're going.

 

[Triple Threat]

When I ride on a road I've never ridden all, in my mind all corners ahead tight. Also, I've ridden many roads, so when I come across a corner on a new road, in my mind all corners are tight, if they end up being loose I can adjust, if they do indeed end up being tight, I'm already prepared. Let's say I do get caught off guard, I just say to myself "This is like that tight 15mph corner on Hwy 9 etc" which makes it more familiar and keeps me calm.

Slow in, fast out works too.

Triple

 

[Enchanter]

Let expand on the oft used phrase: Ride your own ride.

What does that mean exactly? It has a nice ring to it, and sounds good, but it seems very open to interpretation. Let's break it down to the elements that are contained within it.

What are the components / elements make it what it is, or what we hope it to be?

 

[IpseDixit]

So here's photos of the damage















Now for a question, do I need to replace my helmet. I didn't slam against the ground, but I did slide along the ground for a little bit.

 

[Triple Threat]

Let expand on the oft used phrase: Ride your own ride.

What does that mean exactly?

Simply put: Ride within your own limits.

Triple

 

[Enchanter]

Simply put: Ride within your own limits.

Triple

I suggest that it really isn't that simple. Many (most) riders have no idea what their limits are. This is especially true of new(er) riders.

How can a rider tell when they are within their limits? Conversely, how can one tell when they are riding beyond their limits? Are there any clues, or is it just when they experience a crash, or close-call?

I'm looking for specific components that make up riding within ones limits and/or riding their own ride.

 

[Cincinnatus]

Yes. Replace your helmet.

 

[Triple Threat]

The Force is Strong With this One.....

I suggest that it really isn't that simple.

Ahhh, you want a debate. Well I can't give you that, each person needs to figure that out on their own, but the principle remains the same. If you crash you've gone beyond one's limit. If you got scared, you also went beyond that limit. Funny thing is, I never needed anyone to tell me what "my" limit was, I could just feel it. For me with was simple, for others they need charts and graphs etc, in the end it will come down to common sense and one's instincts, good, bad or indifferent.

Triple

 

[Enchanter]

Ahhh, you want a debate. Well I can't give you that, each person needs to figure that out on their own, but the principle remains the same. If you crash you've gone beyond one's limit. If you got scared, you also went beyond that limit. Funny thing is, I never needed anyone to tell me what "my" limit was, I could just feel it. For me with was simple, for others they need charts and graphs etc, in the end it will come down to common sense and one's instincts, good, bad or indifferent.

Triple

You seem to misunderstand me. I do not want a debate. I'm looking for discussion.

Simply saying "ride within your own limits" doesn't say anything to someone that does not know where there limits are. It is a hollow statement to those that do not already understand it. There are many crashes where the rider thought everything was just peachy up until they fall, ran off the road, or crashed. Your statement of "If you got scared..." is a great clue for others, and exactly what I was trying to inspire in this thread.

Common sense isn't common, and riding a motorcycle isn't instinctual. Our reactions and responses are learned. My questions are intended to help others learn with tangible advice that they can easily understand and put into use.

How can we help these riders learn to define where those limits may be.

As an example:
For me, clues that I'm pushing a little too much are:
My heart rate climbs a bit more than usual.
The motorcycle doesn't end up exactly where I wanted it to be at the exit of the turn. (too close to the edge of the lane)
I roll off the throttle, or brake while leaned into the turn.
I find myself thinking of other things unrelated to the task of riding.
I find myself trying to keep up (Its been many years since I've had the urge to keep up, but it is a clue)

 

[Enchanter]

Another example:
[youtube]f1VRUPk-uZk[/youtube]

This rider is comfortable, and likely using their version of common sense, and thinks that they are riding their own ride, and within their limits.

Yet they are making many unsafe technique errors that will likely end badly for them.

There are many clues getting ignored.

 

[flying_hun]

For me, clues that I'm pushing a little too much are:
My heart rate climbs a bit more than usual.
The motorcycle doesn't end up exactly where I wanted it to be at the exit of the turn. (too close to the edge of the lane)
I roll off the throttle, or brake while leaned into the turn.
I find myself thinking of other things unrelated to the task of riding.I find myself trying to keep up (Its been many years since I've had the urge to keep up, but it is a clue)

These are very useful symptoms to be aware of. The one in red typically is an indicator that I'm about to be over my limit rather than that I already am.

Add to the list:
Stiff arms and lower back
Holding my breath, or 'panting'.

 

[flying_hun]

First mistake was cutting too sharply into the turn. Normally I would stay to the outside of the turn as much as possible but as this was a one lane road and a blind corner I decided to cut sharply towards the edge of the road.

Do you mean you turned in too early, or turned in too sharply. The latter would suggest you needed to stand up the bike to keep it from running off the inside of the turn. Is that what happened?

It sounds like you turned in too early, then had to continue to tighten your line to stay on your side of the road. Is that what happened?

I know I was leaned over too far that was my biggest mistake.

I'm not sure what that means. Were you already dragging a peg or hard parts when the rear tire lost traction? Was the pavement dirty? I may be a sissy, but I don't recall many experiences with leaning a bike over too far unless I had accidently turned too tightly and was headed for the inside of the turn.

Was your rear tire still on the paved surface when it slid out? Is there any chance you applied the rear brake and locked up the back wheel, causing it to slide out?

 

[smm]

Which right-hand hairpin? The one at the top or the one at the bottom?

What gear were you in? What controls (throttle, brake, clutch) did you use? Did you perhaps stall the bike?

 

[IpseDixit]

It sounds like you turned in too early, then had to continue to tighten your line to stay on your side of the road. Is that what happened?

Yes this is what happened, thank you for being more descriptive than I can.

Was your rear tire still on the paved surface when it slid out? Is there any chance you applied the rear brake and locked up the back wheel, causing it to slide out?

Yes I was still on the pavement. I don't remember applying the rear brake mid turn but it is possible I did when I realized things were going wrong, at that point the tire would have already been slipping though.

Which right-hand hairpin? The one at the top or the one at the bottom?

What gear were you in? What controls (throttle, brake, clutch) did you use? Did you perhaps stall the bike?

At the top I think. We'd already been on Black for a while. This was my first time on the road so I'm not too familiar with it. I know there's a driveway on the turn as that's where I pushed the bike to inspect it.

I was in third. No clutch. Braked as I approached the turn then let off the brakes before entering the turn. Rolled the throttle on as I noticed the uphill portion.

 

[smm]

So this is the turn?

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&so...noid=aGKQmm6GGsAUMgg3gyCMsQ&cbp=12,90,,0,22.5

And you in third gear. Hmm... Hypothesis: you come in too hot, panic a bit, lean "a lot" and then as you roll on the gas on the steeply climbing apex nothing happens, and the bike just falls over at 20 mph or so.

How did the bike respond to throttle? Was the engine running when you picked it up? Which way was the bike facing?

 

[IpseDixit]

Engine responded to throttle, didn't chug at all but probably would have put out more power had I been in second

Engine was not running but I hit the kill switch just in case. Bike slid across the road and stopped in the middle of the other lane facing the opposite direction

That wasn't the corner, I'll find it on google maps when I'm not on mobile

 

[smm]

OK scrap that hypothesis. Not lugging 3rd gear on that road sounds like a garden-variety case of "too fast."

 

[Cal FZ Rider]

Engine responded to throttle, didn't chug at all but probably would have put out more power had I been in second

Engine was not running but I hit the kill switch just in case. Bike slid across the road and stopped in the middle of the other lane facing the opposite direction

That wasn't the corner, I'll find it on google maps when I'm not on mobile

So was it a one lane road or a two lane road? In the original post you said...

Normally I would stay to the outside of the turn as much as possible but as this was a one lane road and a blind corner I decided to cut sharply towards the edge of the road.

How did you feel on the ride? Were you comfortable? Were you on an adrenaline rush? Did you feel like you were "kicking ass today?"

Another good indicator that you are riding over your limit is your grip in the handlebars, were you hanging on for dear life or were your hands relaxed and only being used for control inputs. Normally if you are overdoing it you instinctively grip the handlebars too hard.

Was there any debris in the road that could have caused you to lose traction?

How old is your rear tire?
Is is a soft sport compound or is it a hard touring compound?
Are there "chicken strips" on the outside edges?

Here's my tsk tsk list:

You should not have been riding fast enough through a blind corner to crash specifically on a road you don't know. There can be things like driveways past those blind corners. You're lucky you had a light damage low side and didn't pile into a car with a family in it.

If you're leaning the bike so far over that you are concerned about losing edge grip get a pair of leathers with some knee sliders and start shifting your body off the bike and keeping more rubber on the ground. Or even better, go to a track and save that sort of antics for a controlled environment where you can safely learn your and your bike's limits.

The attaboy list:

You're looking back on what happened and trying to figure out what you did wrong.

You did have enough gear on to for you to walk away with only some minor injuries.

Don't feel bad about it and once you figure out what you did wrong you'll wonder how you ever crashed there. I had my first crash 12 years ago and the next year and every time since when I would ride through that decreasing radius off camber turn at speeds way higher than the ones I crashed at I always wonder how I ever crashed there.

 

[Holeshot]

Pretty simple what happened, actually. Your post even describes it well; you added lean angle while adding an amount of throttle. As Kurt identified, you closed the entrance to the corner down (also called fading in) by turning in early to the apex/ corner. That usually is a symptom of not looking ahead enough or not trusting the front end.