First Accident Lowside on Black Rd

[p4i1]

OK scrap that hypothesis. Not lugging 3rd gear on that road sounds like a garden-variety case of "too fast."

This road and third gear on 600cc?! That's the most wrong thing here. That's not too fast, that just incorrect. You cannot make ~70 mph there (that's when I shift to 3rd usually)

 

[flying_hun]

Pretty simple what happened, actually. Your post even describes it well; you added lean angle while adding an amount of throttle.

I think you hit something there that I overlooked. Both inputs simultaneously.

 

[Holeshot]

I think you hit something there that I overlooked. Both inputs simultaneously.

Perhaps...it's my guess given the info he gave. Missed apex's either result in increased brake and lean angle or increased gas and lean angle..both being the wrong answer, as you're well experienced and know Kurt.

 

[latindane]

Perhaps...it's my guess given the info he gave. Missed apex's either result in increased brake and lean angle or increased gas and lean angle..both being the wrong answer, as you're well experienced and know Kurt.

I would presume that the OP was not on the brakes at all and not at maximum lean, so there would be some room for (soft) braking while adding lean angle. Why would that be the wrong answer? (and by extension, what would the right answer be?)

 

[Holeshot]

Well increased lean angle + throttle is the classic crash...leaving the parking lot, coming off a corner, etc. That ones' obvious to you, I know.

Yes, you can add lean angle and brake, but if it's done correctly, as you're adding lean angle, you're taking away brake lever into the corner as maximum braking has been performed straight up and down and we want to make sure not to overload the front tire at angle as well as get a little bit of suspension travel back in case there's a bump mid corner, etc. One of the bigger reasons for maintaing slight trail braking as you tip in is to keep pressure on the front contact patch. So yeah, it totally can be done, but usually a missed apex is a missed apex...gather it up, slow down and then turn back to it when comfortable.

It's why riding the street and maximizing an exit is a lot safer than maximizing an entry, IMO.

 

[FXCLM5]

he was new rider on new road, following his buds, the 3rd bud was even further back from him, meaning he was riding way over his head to keep bro #1 in sight.

3rd gear in a hairpin = no power

how fast where u going, i would assume your bike would literally lug out (stall) if u were doing anything less then 30 in the hairpin in 3rd gear.

 

[IpseDixit]

So after reviewing Black Rd on google maps I realized this accident happened on Gish.

Bike wasn't lugging, it produces power in third down to 20mph. Obviously it's not in the peak power band, but honestly I rarely take the bike over 9k rpm because the amount of power in that range scares me.

 

[Holeshot]

Torque vs hp...which is more manageable? Which will break a tire free more easily?

 

[smm]

...but honestly I rarely take the bike over 9k rpm because the amount of power in that range scares me.

Unfortunately, that bike is going to hold you back as a rider because you are afraid to ride it as it was designed to be ridden.

With respect to avoiding this situation in the future: Given how this corner surprised you and that you were not lugging third, I suspect that you were probably outriding your sight-lines. On small single-lane goat tracks, the "prudent speed limit" usually comes from lack of visibilty rather than traction.

In the ride prior to the crash, how many times did you count out a 4-second sight line?

 

[Enchanter]

Unfortunately, that bike is going to hold you back as a rider because you are afraid to ride it as it was designed to be ridden.

The idea that someone cannot learn to be a better rider because they do not ride their bike above a specific RPM is ludicrous.

 

[danate]

I had a similar almost-crash on a very tight, inclining and unmarked hairpin turn (coming up Page Mill Rd). This was right when I first started out and was riding an SV1000 (I know, dumb).

If you turn in early on an inclining hairpin, you really limit yourself as to what you can do to get out of it. You gave it more lean and throttle and lost traction because you were at the steepest part of the road. Being more centered in the lane would have helped keep you level where you can lean appropriately to make the turn.

I was in second gear when I did the same thing and I ended up chopping the throttle and standing the bike up, it began lugging, but I managed to get into first gear before coming to a standstill and clutched it up and around back into the turn. I was very lucky there was no oncoming traffic. If I had stayed in second gear and turned in a little later, I would have executed the turn just fine.

So I think you were either going to fast or in too high of a gear, or possibly both. Even in racing they drop down into first gear for some of the tight hairpins. Learning to keep my revs up made riding goat paths a lot easier.

Kudos for being geared up and coming out of it okay. If anything it was a good learning experience for the future.

 

[Gary856]

So after reviewing Black Rd on google maps I realized this accident happened on Gish.

Bike wasn't lugging, it produces power in third down to 20mph. Obviously it's not in the peak power band, but honestly I rarely take the bike over 9k rpm because the amount of power in that range scares me.

I believe you mean "Gist" Rd, which connects Black Rd and Skyline.

Gist Rd has as series of very sharp and steep zig-zag switchbacks.

A few observations:

- Unlike the 15 mph turn on Hwy 9 that can be easily taken at 30, the switchbacks on Gist are true 10-15 mph turns. As such it's very hard to see going uphill in third gear on a 600. I'd be in first gear on my ZX-10R/MTS going uphill, and in 2nd gear going downhill.

- On a sharp right-hand uphill switch back, the rear tire is heavily loaded (from gravity) so rear traction usually isn't a problem. Also the sharply rising pavement to the right limits right side cornering clearance. I'm usually more concerned about the front getting light and push wide, especially when it's wet, so I'd lean forward to weigh the front.

- On a steep/sharp climbing turn like that where you're struggling to overcome uphill gravity, incorrect braking usually results in a drop from the lost of forward motion and gravity, but NOT from a rear slide.

My guess - if it was really a rear slide, OP's rear tire slid on sand/dirt/debris since he cut/leaned too close to the apex.

 

[StreetDesire]

using an outside-inside-outside path of travel would have allowed you to look farther into the turn and also allow you to reduce lean angle (smooths out the turn).

glad you're okay and nice enough to share your experience on barf.