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Shooting The Unarmed Man – The Fallacy Of Modern Perception

Exactly right and I see it as being very loosely similar. Laws aside, you shouldn't yell at someone with a gun and you shouldn't punch a cop. Neither are life threatening and do not warrant a lethal response, even though the fear induced paranoid mind can easily lead you to believe that person could attack and potentially kill you during the attack.
Neither are life threatening?

I worked for five years in a large Chicagoland hospital; more folks died or were crippled by fists and feet than by firearms and knives. It always started with one punch or kick, and sometimes even ended right there.

If you don't think one punch is a threat, you have never been properly punched...get back to us if that ever happens.
 
Get back to me when you think 5000 deaths out of 314 million is something I need to worry about. Enjoy ur auto.
 
Neither are life threatening?

I worked for five years in a large Chicagoland hospital; more folks died or were crippled by fists and feet than by firearms and knives. It always started with one punch or kick, and sometimes even ended right there.

If you don't think one punch is a threat, you have never been properly punched...get back to us if that ever happens.


Yes, why should someone be expected to take a beating as part of their job? I've seen some of the same things working at hospitals all over the country.

I realize this is my own bias, and ideally nobody would be injured or killed, but to me, the life of a police officer is more valuable to society than that of the guy who acting violently towards others.
 
It just seems to me that if you are approaching someone in a threatening manner with a deadly object, odds are good that they'll defend themselves if they have the means. Doesn't matter if it's a cop or not. How many people are going to stand around and get stabbed/killed? A civilian can at least run, but it is the duty of the police to stand and neutralize the threat, lest the public be harmed by the idiot/asshole/crazy person. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


People say "it's only a knife", but I've seen some permanently debilitating and even lethal knife wounds roll into the ER.

I wasn't arguing that the shooting in the case of the video was unwarranted. No one said it's only a knife... He had a knife and was coming at the officers they had every reason to stop him. Shooting him 9 times and continuing after he was on the ground? Maybe a bit excessive.

Maybe my hypothetical about him being unarmed was a little bit too much.

One doesn't even have to lay a finger on another to pose an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death.

The threat level is at the discretion of the officer, but where is the line? There is a potential threat in everyone. Defining when lethal force is necessary is tough.

I will not go as others in implying that cops just want to shoot people. I am just questioning the shoot (to kill) and question later mentality that has been becoming increasingly prevalent in these cases.
 
Dan, I'm thinking that part if is because things like school/theater/etc shootings are becoming more common and so the mindset has changed. We're long past the days where there might be a troublemaker or two in town that got hauled in every weekend when he got drunk or whatever. Society is more violent and more socially connected, so we all hear about these incidents.

I personally know of several situations where cops stopped someone for a traffic issue and were either shot, stabbed, or beaten. I know a cop who is now in a wheelchair for life because he chose the kinder, gentler approach and got shot for it. My sister's ex knocked on a door to serve a warrant and was shot, beaten, and held hostage. I suspect it's this stuff that causes cops to shoot first and ask questions later when their lives are on the line. I can't blame them, and I wonder what systemic changes can be implemented to both protect cops and reduce police shootings. I'm not sure there's an answer.


Edited to add: I think another factor in this is the recent glorification of "thug life".
 
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Dan, I'm thinking that part if is because things like school/theater/etc shootings are becoming more common and so the mindset has changed. We're long past the days where there might be a troublemaker or two in town that got hauled in every weekend when he got drunk or whatever. Society is more violent and more socially connected, so we all hear about these incidents.

I personally know of several situations where cops stopped someone for a traffic issue and were either shot, stabbed, or beaten. I know a cop who is now in a wheelchair for life because he chose the kinder, gentler approach and got shot for it. My sister's ex knocked on a door to serve a warrant and was shot, beaten, and held hostage. I suspect it's this stuff that causes cops to shoot first and ask questions later when their lives are on the line. I can't blame them, and I wonder what systemic changes can be implemented to both protect cops and reduce police shootings. I'm not sure there's an answer.


Edited to add: I think another factor in this is the recent glorification of "thug life".

Start by getting rid of the idea that "this can never happen again" and just be okay with the low percentage of losses. You want legal beer? Some families are going to have to die. Be okay with it.
 
Get back to me when you think 5000 deaths out of 314 million is something I need to worry about. Enjoy ur auto.
5,000? 314,000,000? Source?

Also, again you dodge: have you ever been punched in earnest, Mr. "Punches are no big deal?"
 
5,000? 314,000,000? Source?

Also, again you dodge: have you ever been punched in earnest, Mr. "Punches are no big deal?"

CDC, 5k non-firearm deaths in 2011, but that includes other weapons, so weaponless (fist/foot) deaths are even less.

I've posted on that already and you're twisting my words. I said "many people think fights..." and have stated that I'd be the guy shooting the puncher and think that's a bad choice.

Don't feed into fear. It's the biggest social problem we face.
 
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CDC, 5k non-firearm deaths in 2011, but that includes other weapons, so weaponless (fist/foot) deaths are even less.

I've posted on that already and you're twisting my words. I said "many people think fights..." and have stated that I'd be the guy shooting the puncher and think that's a bad choice.

Don't feed into fear. It's the biggest social problem we face.
So,. you are claiming that the CDC published that there were 314 MILLION deaths by firearms in 2011?

Is that your statement?

And again- have you personally ever been punched in earnest?
 
C'mon mang, I said 5k out of 314m. This thread is only 4 pages, start at the beginning. Post #7.
 
C'mon mang, I said 5k out of 314m. This thread is only 4 pages, start at the beginning. Post #7.
So, still no apples-to-apples comparison of what you fear compared to what you apparently don't, and still mum as to whether you've ever been punched.

Got it!

blah, blah, blah, armchair quarterback blah, I don't know what I'm talking about, blah...

:twofinger
 
Are you being funny? You're not sparking anything, I don't wanna play anymore.
 
Are you being funny? You're not sparking anything, I don't wanna play anymore.
Not being funny, just honestly puzzled why you are evidently more afraid of police gunfire than you are of being punched down by a criminal.

I just can't wrap my head around that mindset, and you have steadfastly and repeatedly refused to enlighten.

I'm sure you have some personal experiences that will make it clear to everyone, though.
 
This feels like a "I don't like Obama" comment with a response of "why you so racist??". I just can't engage. You are correct, punches are like mosquito bites and cops are all serial killers. I don't know why I feel this way, must be watching too much Alex Jones. Please accept my apologies.
 
Exactly right and I see it as being very loosely similar. Laws aside, you shouldn't yell at someone with a gun and you shouldn't punch a cop. Neither are life threatening and do not warrant a lethal response, even though the fear induced paranoid mind can easily lead you to believe that person could attack and potentially kill you during the attack.

Maybe the attacker will throw more than one punch?
 
Based on that article, cops should just shoot and kill basically everyone they stop, as they don't know if they might be armed or not.

Great logic indeed!
 
Maybe the attacker will throw more than one punch?

You can hypothetical your way into killing everyone you walk past if you want. How many people have you killed, or how many times have you died in your fights?
 
If you don't think one punch is a threat, you have never been properly punched...get back to us if that ever happens.

Also, again you dodge: have you ever been punched in earnest, Mr. "Punches are no big deal?"

No dodge, you never asked a question. You stated your thought, and implored him to report back if it happened.

Not being funny, just honestly puzzled why you are evidently more afraid of police gunfire than you are of being punched down by a criminal.

I just can't wrap my head around that mindset, and you have steadfastly and repeatedly refused to enlighten.

I'm sure you have some personal experiences that will make it clear to everyone, though.

He's told you several times. Basically, he's playing the numbers. Getting punched MAY be deadly (btw, do you have any stats to back up your claim of more people dying and being fucked up from hands and feet, than guns in Chicagoland?), but getting shot by a cop almost always is.
 
You can hypothetical your way into killing everyone you walk past if you want. How many people have you killed, or how many times have you died in your fights?

No one died so far.

I have been attacked 3 times by strangers though. I fought all three times and I am still here.

Are you going to troll me about that too?
 
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