First time down.

[seeaaannnn]

Hey all,

Just got out of my first motorcycle accident. Still a bit shaken up. No broken bones that I'm aware of, but hitting the doc first thing in the morning to be sure. Anyways, here's how it went down:

Was riding through a neighborhood in Berkeley at around dusk. I was traveling a side street at about 25 mph. The street I was traveling on is a straight road without stop signs or traffic lights, basically a straight away. Cross streets have stop signs and signs that state "cross traffic does not stop". As I was approaching a cross street I see a prius to my left stopped at the stop sign. Since my lane does not stop, I kept along my path of travel straight. Right when I enter the area of the cross street, the woman pulls out in front of me. I laid my brake as much as I can, but being a 77 CB550, the brakes arent the best, so I laid my bike on its side. I slide into her front right fender. As far as damages, the bikes clutch lever is broken, speedo and tach are shattered and my strator cover is pretty banged up. The bike was over flowing gas, not sure if it will start up, but I'll check once the gas dries. As far as injuries, I slid on my leg. My quadricep is pretty swollen, going to the doc for xrays in the morning. Otherwise unscathed. Thank god for good gear.

I don't know how I could have prevented this. If I swerved around her car I ran the risk of being hit from the side. I guess it was just one of those unfortunate unavoidable events motorcyclists don't want to see. Never trust a cager in a Prius.

 

[latindane]

It sucks to have an accident. Glad that you're healthy enough so that you can post about it. Make sure you don't delay getting checked up.

You may want to start by going to the 1Rider forum and reading about strategies and tactics that would have been useful in this case. Check for instance the "Intersections" bit in Five Ways to Crash (plus one).

The street I was traveling on is a straight road without stop signs or traffic lights, basically a straight away.

The fact that you think of a straight road with frequent intersections where you have the right of way as "basically a straight away" made me cringe.

I laid my brake as much as I can, but being a 77 CB550, the brakes arent the best, so I laid my bike on its side.

Unless you have NO brakes at all, staying upright is the best way to reduce your speed. I have trouble imagining a scenario where "laying her down" is a better idea than to keep braking; since sliding on the side scrubs very little speed... maybe if you are approaching a rig and the options are slide under it or hit it while on the brakes. But other than some very specific cases, I would say committing to braking, swerving, or some combination of the two, is your best option.

Hope there is minimal physical damage, and that you learn something from a shitty experience (other than "Never trust a cager in a Prius").

 

[kurth83]

So she left turned out in front of you? I think that is the second most common cause of moto crashes, left turn from oncoming being #1 cause of death.

You were lucky it was a low-speed crash.

Things that stood out for me:
- it was dusk
- she didn't see you (SMIDSY)
- you were going the speed limit (kudos, probably saved you from more serious injury).

Things you didn't say:
- lane position
- if there was a shoulder you could have used

Personally additional front lights can greatly help with this kind of thing. I know this section is mostly about skills, but safety measures can and do reduce crashes. I just plain don't get cut off anymore after I added the big DRL's up front, but I still ride defensively, it only takes one person to not see you.

Also, ABS probably would have prevented the low-side.

Now back to skills and riding strategies...

Lane position can make a big difference in how much reaction time you have.
Were you hugging the outside of the lane? Or dead center?

 

[Hooli]

Also, ABS probably would have prevented the low-side.

On a 77 CB550? laughing

 

[latindane]

The mention of the SMIDSY reminds me of "the weave" to get seen whenever you're in doubt. I'm sure you can also find a video on it inside 1Rider.

 

[seeaaannnn]

It sucks to have an accident. Glad that you're healthy enough so that you can post about it. Make sure you don't delay getting checked up.

You may want to start by going to the 1Rider forum and reading about strategies and tactics that would have been useful in this case. Check for instance the "Intersections" bit in Five Ways to Crash (plus one).

The fact that you think of a straight road with frequent intersections where you have the right of way as "basically a straight away" made me cringe.

Unless you have NO brakes at all, staying upright is the best way to reduce your speed. I have trouble imagining a scenario where "laying her down" is a better idea than to keep braking; since sliding on the side scrubs very little speed... maybe if you are approaching a rig and the options are slide under it or hit it while on the brakes. But other than some very specific cases, I would say committing to braking, swerving, or some combination of the two, is your best option.

Hope there is minimal physical damage, and that you learn something from a shitty experience (other than "Never trust a cager in a Prius").

Yup. I learned a lot from this crash and got out relatively unscathed and I'm thankful for that.

Thinking back I could have manipulated my lane position better. I was hugging the inside of the lane. Maybe I should have moved to the outside. Other than that I kept my speed pretty low, downshifting and hitting my rear brake a bit coming into the cross street. Just got surprised by her unanticipated move.

We'll see what the insurance agency ends up doing, but my next move in the near future may be to get a modern bike with modern brakes. Love the vintage bikes, but their performance/safety leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Archimedes]

I don't know how I could have prevented this. If I swerved around her car I ran the risk of being hit from the side. I guess it was just one of those unfortunate unavoidable events motorcyclists don't want to see.

I would rethink all of this, unless you want it to repeat over and over throughout your motorcycling life.

Once you saw the car, did you do anything at all in preparation of the possibility of her pulling out? Go neutral throttle, cover your front brake, keep your field of vision wide and on her front tire?

Also, since you slid into her, why did you go down? Did you lose the rear tire due to hard braking? Or did you lose the front?

 

[Tim-That CX Guy]

You said it was dusk,
where were you in relation to the sun? (was it behind you?)

Dusk is not my favorite time to ride to begin with, especially if the sunset is at my back. Very easy to miss a single headlight in that situation.
Approaching a cross street of this type, I assume that, Prii-tard or not, that the driver cannot not see me.
Slow down a little, and flick the brights at them a few times.
Watch their front wheel.
If it even twitches, brake hard, and lay on the horn.

 

[stangmx13]

if u were on the ground before hitting the car, u were not braking properly. we'll never know, but u may actually have had time to come to a complete stop before impacting the car if u had stayed upright. the fact that "your bike does not have the best brakes" has nothing to do with it. you should learn to use the brakes to their full potential. at the very least, u could have been going a lot slower at the time of impact.

 

[seeaaannnn]

Okay. Got a little more information today. Apparently she thought it was a four way stop. She pulled out in front of me about a car length away assuming I was supposed to make a stop. Accidents happen I guess.

As far as why I went down, my rear tire locked up and I had no traction/was sliding. Thought it would be best to lay the bike down rather than doing a rag doll over her hood while staying upright.

I appreciate all the feedback. I guess its part of the learning process. I was lucky enough that it was a residential street and that we weren't moving over 30mph.

As far as preventing this again, should I be slowing down into every intersection/cross street? I was maintaining an even cruise mph of 25

 

[sanjuro]

Okay. Got a little more information today. Apparently she thought it was a four way stop. She pulled out in front of me about a car length away assuming I was supposed to make a stop. Accidents happen I guess.

As far as why I went down, my rear tire locked up and I had no traction/was sliding. Thought it would be best to lay the bike down rather than doing a rag doll over her hood while staying upright.

I appreciate all the feedback. I guess its part of the learning process. I was lucky enough that it was a residential street and that we weren't moving over 30mph.

As far as preventing this again, should I be slowing down into every intersection/cross street? I was maintaining an even cruise mph of 25

As a general rule, I never stay in "cruise" mode when it comes to speed. One strategy at intersections like your accident is to slow down as you approach, then speed up after you enter it. Your overall speed is the same.

I actually always assume that cars are going to pull out in front of me, so I ride defensively at all times.

 

[Archimedes]

My way (not necessarily the right way for everyone by any means) of handling this situation would have been:

1. I assume car is going to pull out in front of me.
2. I'm off throttle or at most maintenance throttle as I approach and I only go positive throttle when I'm almost even with the car, and it is still fully stopped.
3. I'm covering my front brake with two fingers well ahead of time (actually I cover full time when I ride)
4. My field of vision is wide and includes her front tire, which I'm watching for any movement.
5. When she does actually start to pull out in front of me, I'm immediately off the gas and on the front brakes firmly and progressively harder.
6. I never touch my rear brake.

 

[bojangle]

Okay. Got a little more information today. Apparently she thought it was a four way stop. She pulled out in front of me about a car length away assuming I was supposed to make a stop. Accidents happen I guess.

As far as why I went down, my rear tire locked up and I had no traction/was sliding. Thought it would be best to lay the bike down rather than doing a rag doll over her hood while staying upright.

I appreciate all the feedback. I guess its part of the learning process. I was lucky enough that it was a residential street and that we weren't moving over 30mph.

As far as preventing this again, should I be slowing down into every intersection/cross street? I was maintaining an even cruise mph of 25

The bolded part is what I was thinking when I read your narrative. You should always be careful when driving through those intersection where only 2-ways stop. There are enough people not paying attention and believe they are 4-way stops. This goes double when riding a motorcycle. And no, accidents don't just happen. Police call them "collisions" and not "accidents" for a reason. Most are preventable. In this case, the Prius driver was at fault, but we are always on the losing end when on a motor.

Yup. I learned a lot from this crash and got out relatively unscathed and I'm thankful for that.

Thinking back I could have manipulated my lane position better. I was hugging the inside of the lane. Maybe I should have moved to the outside. Other than that I kept my speed pretty low, downshifting and hitting my rear brake a bit coming into the cross street. Just got surprised by her unanticipated move.

We'll see what the insurance agency ends up doing, but my next move in the near future may be to get a modern bike with modern brakes. Love the vintage bikes, but their performance/safety leaves a lot to be desired.

A couple others already mentioned this, but this should be your biggest learning item. You should have anticipated her move and been prepared in advance, as you approached the intersection, to respond as soon as she started moving forward.

 

[MCSFTGUY]

I am going to take a different stance on this.... The other driver thought that you were going to stop... this shows she saw you but went anyway... there is nothing that you can do about this... you could ride in the gutter but then you will have lots of experience changing flat tire.. Somebody else mentioned the weave for the car... very good conspicuity tactic in situations like this... but in this case chances are it would not have worked.

So as far as avoid a crash by trying to avoid other drivers, not in this case, IMHO you were hosed. No matter what riders say, not every crash can be forseen or prevented.

But, avoiding the crash by PROPER braking... this is a different story... So...a thought game for all.... how do you lay a bike down? what do you as a rider have to do in order to put a bike down on a LOW SIDE???? Not as easy done as said. You locked up the rear tire... chances are you went down because of this. You didn't lay it down... the bike went down unintentionally. This could account for you and your motorcycle crashing into the car... an upright stopping motorcycle has a coefficient of friction of about 0.6g, a sliding motorcycle has about 0.25g... this means the upright motorcycle stops way sooner than the sliding motorcycle.

So for me, is there anything you could have done to predict or forseen this crash.... nope.... is there anything that you could have done to avoid the crash... possibly... proper braking... no locking up the rear tire and as much front brake as possible without locking this one up either. This takes practice, or as somebody else said a motorcycle with ABS.... which is not an option on a 77 Honda.

 

[danate]

Do you remember how much rear brake you were applying vs the front?

Since you say you felt the rear sliding, I would assume you were pretty heavy on the rear brake. You should always be doing the majority of your braking with the front. Some practice of hard stops will help you get used to this. Once your rear is sliding, you want to keep it where it is until you come to a full stop. You can keep the bike upright while sliding and still apply more front brake until you stop. You should never try to lay it down (except for a few extenuating circumstances).

These are all things I learned from the Alameda Sheriff civilian motor class. I highly recommend it for you if you have the funds ($200). It's mostly low speed practice, but also includes emergency braking and swerving and best of all it's all done on loaner KZ1000 bikes. That way you don't have to be afraid of dropping them if it does happen. Those bikes have crappy old brakes as well, but you can still make them stop if you use them right.

 

[ollie.on]

I'm familiar with these 2 way intersections. Did this happen in North Berkeley? I had a friend go down on Cedar a couple years ago in the same way, t-boned by a van.

When I go through these intersections, I'm off-throttle and will actually brake until I know what the car is going to do. Sure, it means I'm slow through the intersection even when they're planning on letting me by, but I haven't come close to getting hit in this way yet.

 

[islemann]

I'm wondering if you used ANY front brake at all. You say you were covering the rear brake - were you covering the front? I ride old bikes - and rarely do I use the rear brake other than to settle the bike a bit into a corner or to hold the bike on a hill while at a stop.

 

[seeaaannnn]

Thanks again for the feedback everyone. The accident happened in South Berkeley, on Prince St.

Had a chance to revisit this thread one week post lay down. I can see I was still a little heated writing my post, so now that things are cooled down and collected, I can re-evaluate accordingly.

As far as how much rear brake I was using, it all happened so fast. I usually mainly use the rear for slowing down into corners, etc. I just remember seeing her pull out and being so shocked I just pulled in the clutch, pulled in my front brake as hard as I could, and put my foot down as hard as I could on the rear brake. Probably not the best idea, and I most likely went down because of it.

Went for a ride yesterday for the first time since the lay down on my honda. Its running well, which is a sigh of relief for me. Now that this is over, I can take it as a good lesson in riding. Need to practice emergency stops ASAP. Daydreaming about swapping out my old school front end with GSXR inverted forks and double disks as well

As far as a major lesson learned... its true what they say. Accidents are most likely to happen close to where you live. My guess is that drivers are not as alert on quiet side streets. With low traffic volume and low speeds, everyone gets lulled into a state of security and comfort. Going into these residential 2 ways from now on I will be laying off the throttle and doing some minor braking until I can trust I know that the other driver sees me/and I can anticipate their movements. Stay sharp guys.

 

[danate]

Your major lesson learned should be how to brake properly and that is NOT primarily using your rear brake. If you mainly use your rear brake on a daily basis, then that is what you're going to apply first in a panic situation. Practice using your front brake and learn what threshold braking is. While that may not have saved you from this accident, it's the best chance you have.

 

[LectricBill]

+1 on using mostly front brake most of the time. One of the benefits from your proper practice of emergency stops will be building your muscle memory on how to proportion front to rear braking and how to modulate your braking according to what the bike is doing. Just because the rear tire starts to skid doesn't mean it has to STAY in that condition until you low side. You can learn to pump the rear brake during an emergency stop. Since 70% of your stopping power comes from the front, THAT's the one to get intimately familiar with through lots of practice with frequent reviews. It's got to get into your muscles so reflexes take over.