i ate it on hwy9 and got real well acquainted with the road

[shrimants]

Exactly.

OP - nobody is saying the pine needled helped the situation, but they're nothing more than an incidental factor at best. Had they not been there you may have remained vertical for a longer period of time, but as you noted (and have acknowledged) you were already in a world of shit. Had it not been the pine needles it might have been a Bott's dot, the DY itself or perhaps some snail poop or a butterfly's fart - and none of those would have changed the fact that but for your decisions leading up to them you would have not made contact with them at all.

I had a fall years ago because I cut a corner and transitioned from asphalt to concrete...and failed to notice the fine sand on the concrete that was slick as ice. The sand "caused" me to lose traction, yes - but the only reason I ever touched it was my own bad judgement. It was my bad, 100%.

i get what you guys are saying. its just still really fresh and vivid in my mind the exact moment of what happened, so i tended to post those details. i dont remember much more of the ride itself except that moment (obviously) andi also remember how ridiculously pretty hwy 9 was as i was on the tow truck riding into town.

i had tons of time to reflect on it while waiting for rides/etc and everything points back to 1 thing. its my fault because i got cocky.

should have listened to han solo

 

[GAJ]

Sounds like you learned a lesson.

There are no rewards for being the fastest guy on the street, especially in traffic, but there are plenty of potential penalties.

Controlling the "red mist" gets easier after years of experience and a scare or three.

That's how it worked out for me after I had an up close and personal discussion with a barbed wire fence.

Learning from those scares is key and it sounds like you have, indeed, learned something valuable from this experience.

 

[S1KGSXR600]

You seem to have learned your lesson, and have learned from it and as a result will become a better rider from it. However, two things I'd like to add:

1. Know your bike, and its limits. Different size bikes have different strengths and weaknesses. You mentioned riding within your limits, but those limits also extend to the bikes limits as well. A 600 CC, especially without downshifting, doesnt have the kind of raw power my S1K does, which is why I am able to blow past cars like that. I wouldn't try it on a 600, and you didn't have to either. A 600s strength is cornering - you could have stayed behind the two cars, taken the curve, passed on the straight and caught me up ahead, or ridden the rest of it at your own pace. I will always wait for slower riders.

2. Remember my hill story where muscle memory of perfect body position saved me? This is why I encouraged you to practice body position and why I explained my reasons for hanging off even in light turns - if you had used proper body position, combined with the cornering ability of a 600, you wouldve easily glided through the corner, and probably couldve taken it 20 - 30 mph faster than we were.

But really, how realistically could you have done that at your level of experience? You probably could not have, simply due to lack of familiarity, confidence and practice. For me to do what I do (moderately fast, but keep in mind when you read this 1000s arent as easy to corner as your bike) has taken me 600$ and the past couple months of constant practice to develop. So what you can take away from this is know your limits, and your skill levels, and refine those skills until you move up, don't move up without refining those skills.

Skill checklist: Ask yourself, can I do these things perfectly, by the book, almost subconsciously?

Downshifting
Upshifting
Smooth braking
Smooth entry speed
Smooth vision execution
Smooth throttle management for proper entry speed
proper countersteering inputs and body position for maximum cornering traction
Proper weighting on pegs & legs clamped (Always when performance riding)
Knowledge of lines and how to change or adjust them mid corner
emergency braking


This is all I can think of, but if you had had taken the time to learn and refine these vital techniques, your crash might not have occurred. Despite being an amazing riding for a newbie, you may have been experiencing the performance power of the bike, instead of any performing power as a rider... in other words, the bikes been doing all the work! Thats why your so fast, yet so new.

Not to say there isnt any skill involved, but the way things were/are going at your current skills and current speeds, is a recipe for disaster. The first solid clue of an oncoming disaster is any sort of fear, or uncomfortability. Every time I've crashed, which has been 4 times recently, spread out, after 3 years (thanks to trying out cornering for the first times ever haha) however they all couldve been prevented if i'd listened to my brain and slowed down, instead of allowing my ego to maintain my pace. Now when I ride, the pace we were at yesterday almost seemed slow, and I felt nothing but relaxed and smooth. This is how cornering should feel, if your within your abilities.

No one cares how fast you are. No one cares how slow you are. We all ride at our own pace. BusaRydah will go 50 the whole time and I might go 100, but at the end of the route, ill be there waiting. Rather that than see any of my buddies die. Im not going to rag on you, or call you slow. If someone is doing that, they should be punched in the face and not ridden with. Instead, id rather help you with advice on technique that you can work on to go a little more faster a little more comfortable..

Remember how I said we should always leave a margin of error when on the streets, and to never ride at max? that goes for group, and solo rides. Someone taking a quick pace ahead of you might be moving at 70% of their max, which is 100% of yours. Its unwise to try to chase. I was only executing the speed I was going at on the first run because I believed I was riding at a 60% speed, due to my self perceived ability to pick lines, apexes, see hazards and alter my lines.

Bit of a ramble, but I'm glad your willing to accept responsibility for your crash, even though it was a genuine mistake made worse by road debris, every crash is usually a result of rider error... ask yourself... if your bike hadnt had you on it, do you think it wouldve crashed? haha... you know what i mean...

TLDR: Work on skill before going too fast, be honest with yourself and your real limits, despite what the ego whispers... and know your equipment, its limits, and how to use them.

 

[PorradaVFR]

i had tons of time to reflect on it while waiting for rides/etc and everything points back to 1 thing. its my fault because i got cocky.

The fact that you get this simple fact speaks well of your future potential as a rider. Being able to grasp that "my judgement was the reason" is a piece of knowledge that can't really be taught. Sorry for your off, but well done coming around to see the bigger picture.

 

[S1KGSXR600]

Also I'm not sure if you know this, since no one might've told you, but you do know the pace we were doing is a faster pace than most other riders can even do, right? Lol

 

[Lunch Box]

Also I'm not sure if you know this, since no one might've told you, but you do know the pace we were doing is a faster pace than most other riders can even do, right? Lol

Faster pace than most riders can do or are willing to do? It has been said time and again that going fast on the track is a measure of skill, and going fast on the street is a measure of nerve. Most skilled riders with a bit of maturity/experience under their belts are CONSIDERABLY more conservative on the street than they are on track. There are simply too many variables on the street, and the consequences of crashing are often much higher.

I can't tell you how many times I've ridden with people on street rides who rode considerably faster, but found myself blowing by them when we ended up on track together. Something to keep in mind.

 

[GAJ]

Faster pace than most riders can do or are willing to do? It has been said time and again that going fast on the track is a measure of skill, and going fast on the street is a measure of nerve. Most skilled riders with a bit of maturity/experience under their belts are CONSIDERABLY more conservative on the street than they are on track. There are simply too many variables on the street, and the consequences of crashing are often much higher.

I can't tell you how many times I've ridden with people on street rides who rode considerably faster, but found myself blowing by them when we ended up on track together. Something to keep in mind.

 

[shrimants]

clearly, at the pace we were going, s1kgsxr600 was maybe 30% engaged while i was at 100%. when you need to give it more, theres nothing left to give and you go down.

still finding it hard to get over what an idiot i was.

 

[GAJ]

 

[EEL]

Almost everyone gets over their head at least once. I've done it too.

Take it as a lesson for the future and move on. When you're in a group ride mentality, this is one of the most (if not the most) common reason why people crash.

In all honesty, this the main reason why I don't go on many group rides. For group rides, I'm at a point where I'm confident with my abilities / limits but I'm more worried that someone else less experienced will take me out.

For me, passing across DY is done strictly on instinct. This instinct is honed with experience. Over time, I've noticed that my instinct now tends to line up with most common sense rules for DY passing.

I've learned to listen to the little voice in my head that warns me when something looks sketchy. Time and experience will keep this voice from being drowned out (especially during group rides). Best way to improve this sixth sense is to experience various road conditions. Don't stick to the same road every time. Branch out and take new roads you've never done.

The more types of roads, turns, hills, bumps you experience, the better your instinct will be and the better you'll be able to handle any condition thrown at you.

People make the mistake of sticking to the same road and route over an over. Eventually you get fast on that one road but the reality is you're not only are you hindering your overall progress by doing this but also self reinforcing a misconception that you are faster than your really are.

 

[Sharxfan]

clearly, at the pace we were going, s1kgsxr600 was maybe 30% engaged while i was at 100%. when you need to give it more, theres nothing left to give and you go down.

still finding it hard to get over what an idiot i was.

It takes time to get over feeling like an idiot. I had 6 long weeks ( dislocated shoulder) to get over my idiocy before I could ride again. Luckily I didn't damage the bike except cosmetically and I was able to get back on it and put to use the lesson I learned from the high side. Ride my own pace and don't worry what others behind me or in front of me think about how fast I am going.

 

[budman]

I applaud you for posting the crash up and also glad your OK.

The street plays no games and only fate, luck and God decide how screwed up you are going to get if you crash.

Certainly the pine needs are a hazard.. yeah they are not the cause, but as someone who tucked the front on them (did not crash due to a quick throttle response) I can attest they can be an issue. This time of year leaves fall, the weather can be beautiful, but the road can be a mystery. Newer riders really need to pay attention to that. So many of our nice roads sit in shade and are prone to surprises!!

Glad you are OK.

 

[Lucky13xx]

In the street you're never 100% in control. Doesn't matter if you have the skills of Marquez, Rossi and Lorenzo in 1. Streets love to throw in random acts of kindness all the time. Pine needles are only 1 of them. Same road as you this weekend I was riding at a reasonable pace, fully confident in my ability as well as the bikes. Came around a blind smooth bend leaned over, before I know it 10 wild turkeys blocking my lane. Stood the bike up as they took flight in all directions, Including at me. No reasonable/predictable path to take.

On the return home, more mellow pace I nearly got to rub my helmet against an oncoming Porsche that went wide And not in the good way

Street riding is fun. Oil, sand, water runoff, cars, other riders, debris, bicycles and wildlife are all part of the equation though. Skill helps minimize certain risks but never all of them. It's a bummer you went down so try to

Learn from the incident.
Internalize the mistakes (what could I do to avoid this next time)
Keep honing your skills
Keep wearing decent gear
Get back on that horse

Sounds like you're getting there

Or just curse the heavens for Pine needles and swear an oath that you will not rest until all Pine trees and any trace of them are removed from this Planet.

 

[bpw]

What are your thoughts on how much riding a super-sport contributed to your accident? Not blaming the bike, but do you think a slower more forgiving bike would have encouraged/forced you to ride a bit slower and given you a bit more chance to recover?

Asking because this seems to be a pretty classic newbie on a sport bike that goes way too fast and tolerates zero mistakes crash, and am curious if you feel the same way.

Thanks for posting, we all mess up but we may mess up a little less if we learn from each other. You got lucky and walked away from this one, now don't ever do it again. I had a similar experience following fast riders early on, a bit of luck kept me upright but it was a wake-up call and forced me too look at what I was doing, That close call has probably saved my life several times over.

On another note to S1KGSXR600, you shouldn't be towing noobs around, 4 self inflicted crashes in 3 years means its time to seriously re-asses your street riding and not spread your bad habits to other riders.

 

[Cincinnatus]

And this is why I ride sweep on the few group rides I go on. I consciously go slower, work on my lines, and keep my ego in check. Yes, I could certainly go faster than many of the other bikes, but I have nothing to prove to others. I'll go a bit slower, help others as needed, and Carpe that old Diem. arty

 

[clutchslip]

I am going to approach this from a completely different aspect, since shrimants has already admitted to his mental mistakes. I would like to bring up some other riding mistakes.

A. Your group should have done one direction on nine, before being too spirited. Then ride faster back the other way. I almost always do this on any day ride. I check out conditions before going the other way with more lean and speed.

B. You were passing too slow. Highway nine only has a couple of places where there is enough room to pass one car, let alone two cars, at only 10-15 mph faster. Plan your passes better.

You need to get around people, as quick ass as possible. I bet you did not count on me coming the other way at say 75mph, did you? Leave some distance between you and the car to pass. Build some momentum, but be ready to pull back behind the vehicle, if necessary. Then when you are sure it is clear, flat-out GO! You can start slowing/braking once you get even with the front of last vehicle you pass, but never before that. Continue squeezing the brake before your next corner, and you won't be posting here, again.

 

[shrimants]

What are your thoughts on how much riding a super-sport contributed to your accident? Not blaming the bike, but do you think a slower more forgiving bike would have encouraged/forced you to ride a bit slower and given you a bit more chance to recover?

Asking because this seems to be a pretty classic newbie on a sport bike that goes way too fast and tolerates zero mistakes crash, and am curious if you feel the same way.

having little to no experience on even this bike, let alone other types/styles of bikes, i dont know that i can say the bike helped lube my head going into my ass. regardless of what ive been driving, ive always had a bit of a lead foot.

what i can say is, having ridden this bike, i dont think my next bike will necessarily be a supersport.

it was great to have that kind of power and speed at my hands, but i think i'd appreciate some storage and comfort more. next bike might be a cruiser type of deal or maybe a dual sport.

i dont really care much about the engine displacement, but i'd like myself and possibly my passenger to be somewhat comfortable, or at the very least i'd like to be able to go to the store and leave with more than just 1 backpack worth of stuff.

 

[shrimants]

Hey Lunchbox, lets keep focus on what an idiot i am rather than dissolving yet another shrimants thread into a flame war.

 

[danate]

If you can't notice something being wrong with your suspension from just riding it AND it makes you crash twice before you fix it, then you definitely shouldn't be going "fast" out on highway 9 and the likes. It really points out that you may be right at that point where overconfidence and hubris sets in, which can lead to you winding up very hurt or dead. Shrimants seems to have learned a little bit of a lesson out of his crash thankfully without getting too hurt. Both of you need to start focusing on safer riding instead of faster riding. Get to the track to get your speed jollies.

And don't blow me off on this because I don't want to be killed by one of you blowing the DY on highway 9.

Oh, and for shrimants. The clearest thing in your story that indicates why you went down is when you say you grabbed the front brake hard. That kind of panic maneuver almost never works and will likely put you on the ground in any situation. Some easy braking and scrubbing off speed and checking that the coast is clear could have allowed you to still make the turn and get in front of the car (possibly...I was not there). If not, trying to threshold brake and come to a stop on the opposite shoulder is the safer action.

I also agree that supersports can be bad news in the hills. I sold my GSXR 750 because it was too damn fast for me to get my rocks off (mainly with how fast it could corner, not flat out acceleration). To get leaned over and cornering the way I like to had me going well above safe speeds for my sight lines. Never had more fun going up to the hills than on my big old RT.

 

[Lunch Box]

Hey Lunchbox, lets keep focus on what an idiot i am rather than dissolving yet another shrimants thread into a flame war.

I actually don't think you are an idiot at all. You appear to be learning something from this experience, which is a very good thing. We disagree on a few details, but that's fine. As danate said, my interest in this is to have folks think about the potential consequences of their actions before a much worse incident happens.

As far as I know, my wife would still rather have me around than collect the life insurance because some moron blows a corner and takes me out. The real message here is to think about how and where you are riding, and to make good decisions.