guineapig
New member
Just got back, after a long journey (10 pm) and I'm still kicking myself for what happened, and I still haven't processed what the heck happened, so I'll try to keep dump as much as I can into this, for people to give me feedback.
(Sorry if it sounds long and rambley).
Crash: (Happened around 6 PM)
I uploaded a picture of the exact turn of where I went into ditch.
Here is the turn:
http://imgur.com/rLyzq
Ditch: (I was going west-bound up Mount Hamilton)
http://imgur.com/SmPIW
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=mount...roGJcZGj1vwtOFO0e4iUgg&cbp=11,263.58,,0,12.91
I found the exact location by eye-balling and Google Maps, and as you can see from the above link that I was almost to the top of Mount Hamilton.
Story:
After making this left blind turn (as you can see from the map), I realized I was going a bit too fast, and that I would then have to make a sharp right turn. I've done turns thousands of times and I had no problems turning before on this route. But something about what I saw made me panic. Basically, I saw the metal gratings from the cattle guard, and I instantly panicked / target fixated on it. I'm trying to think why ?why? why?, and maybe it was from DMV manual, to stories on BARF, and even dropping my bike due to front tire getting caught in the metal tram-lines in San Francisco, that I mentally associated metal = danger, extreme likelihood of loss of traction, and that the answer is to ride perpendicular to any metal gratings to prevent loss of traction (strong mental warning went through my head). However, the cattle guard was right where I needed to turn make a sharp right turn. So, instead of turning right (natural turn), when I saw metal, I only half turned right, tried to brake, but failed, and went into ditch since I took the turn wide. Luckily I wasn't going too fast (I don't know exact speed), but before I could say Crap Crap Crap, I found myself in the ditch, pinned under my motorcycle. I then managed to wiggle from under bike, shut off engine, turned off switch, took off gear, then tried to pull up bike. Since it was too far deep in he ditch, I had to flag down (2 groups of good Samaritans) who helped me pull Ninja 250 out (only 360lb wet weight). Luckily I didn't upgrade to a heavier bike and took the advice to start on a 250, otherwise I'd likely be in much worse shape).
Damage:
Regarding me, my right shoulder is a bit sore on where I went down, but I have full mobility there and I don't think I'm really injured (will see in the morning). Since I was drilled in ATGATT philosophy, I wore: Alpinestars Ridge Riding boots (protected my ankles), Shift Enforcer Knee pads (scuffed my left knee, so it must have protected my knees a lot), Drayko (Draggin Jeans), Alpinestars Textile jacket (with Rubber CE inserts in elbow / shoulder), Teknic gautlet gloves (got really dirty) and Shoei RF-1000 helmet. I mainly went down on my right side, and my boots protected my ankles and my pants got dirty but everything looks fine. (No rips etc...) Probably the way I went down, there was wiggle room that allowed me to just force / tunnel my way out and I didn't knock into anything hard (avoided wall), and very lucky I wasn't going very fast.
Bike Damage:
After realizing I was still breathing, I unpinned myself, took off my gear, shut off engine, took key out, and tried pushing my bike out (it was almost upside down) and I got it lying flat, but I then resigned to flagging down passing motorists. A couple in a Miata stopped, and then another couple in a Honda 1300 cruiser motorcycle stopped as well, and together we managed to pull out the bike out.
Unfortunately it seemed on my poor Ninja 250, that the forks were bent, and I was about to resign that I was screwed, (middle of nowhere far away from home) until one guy thought of an idea to try to try straighten it (like re-bending back the forks like a bent bicycle fork until steering was partially re-aligned). So we went to the metal cattle guard to hold wheel in place, he gave it few good twists, and managed to bend steering back so it was only 5-10 degrees off to the left when before it was more like 30-40 degrees off. After a bit, I managed to start up bike, and the good Samaritans were nice enough to follow me down on my descent down Mount Hamilton to make sure I didn't have any problems. After I got down safely, I was running low on gas, so unfortunately had to make a decision to detour to Patterson and ride all the way from Patterson back to Berkeley instead of keeping on Mines Rd. (Was at 140 miles on odometer). After the crash, I took riding as easy as possible and road about 100 miles on my poor bike, back to Berkeley.
Specific damage report:
Damage = Front Fork bent. I also noticed light is focused on a bit lower angle, front fairing cracked and fairing above wheel is cracked. Everything else about the bike looks fine, all the lights worked, engine worked, and I managed to ride about 100 miles trip back. Hopefully no frame damage (crossing fingures) but tomorrow, I'll get it checked out more thoroughly.
Background Info: (This might help or maybe it is useless, but I think figuring out my mindset as a new rider might be the key to figure out why I crashed and can hopefully benefit others who are thinking like me).
#1: Background: New rider, been riding for about 3 months on a 2005 Ninja 250. I've been reading up on as much as possible, learning from fellow Barfers and anyone I could meet, and been obsessed with riding in any spare time I had, even though I'm a graduate student.
#2: Regarding point #1, after getting bike practically new, in 3 months, I racked up about 3.4k miles, mainly on twisty roads (from Redwoods, Lake Berryessa, Muir, Highway 9 etc...) anywhere I could find on Google maps. After going through twisty roads multiple times, I even started riding until after it got dark, and have ridden the roads at night, commuted back from San Jose to Berkeley in the dark, during rain etc... Sadly, tonight, I literally pushed myself a bit over my riding limit.
#3: Rode for over 6 hours before crash. Started from Berkeley to Antioch (to check out someone selling parts) then down Deer Valley Rd -> Marsh Creek Rd -> Morgan Territory Road all the way to Livermore. Stopped for about an hour at the Wine Festival (didn't drink) they had at Livermore, then went to Patterson via Highway 580, so that I could do Del Puerto Canyon Road going Westward (which is a road I never took before). I wasn't driving fast at all, since this was a new road, so I got to the junction to San Antonio Valley Rd. and took that south and then West on 130 towards Mount Hamilton
#4: I got complacent and overconfident, because I had went up Mount Hamilton about 3-4 times already (and on Friday / Saturday, I road Mount Hamilton going both West and East (from San Jose Foothills), even when it was getting dark and took Mines road north to Livermore and then to Berkeley.
#5: About a month into riding, I was going down Mount Diablo, and I realized my back brake stopped working, and I thought I must have been riding my back brake too much. The reason why I theorize this, is that I pulled over, right away, and felt my back rotor was very hot. I let it cool, and then back brake worked again. I was unsure what was wrong, so I learned how to bleed brakes (from tutorials online and friend). Then about 1 week ago, I was going down Pinehurst Rd. (from Berkeley hills), and my back brake stopped working again (pressed down lever and nothing wasn't happening). I got to the bottom of the road (near the fire road), touched the back rotor (burned my fingers), then let it cool. Rear brake started working again after several minutes of cooling (I saw steam coming out) and then I bled brake when I got back home again.
#6: Hence, from that week forward, I realized if I was developing a bad habit of over-using back-brake and possibly sub-consciously riding rear brake (especially going downhill), I then figured I should force myself to ride, by not covering my back brake at all, and focus on using "engine braking" by shifting to lower gears if I was going too fast. This is a theory, but possibly, if I had been covering the back brake while riding, I could have braked earlier, rather then try turning, and then would have avoided the ditch.
#7: I also realize now, that I have a tendency not to use front brake. Due to the position of the front brake lever, I find it hard to "cover it" by extending my fingers, so I couldn't figure out a good method of covering front brake and twisting throttle (maybe I need adjustable shifters).
To clarify this a bit more, I separated my usage of operating the throttle and operating my front brake. I would pre-plan before using my front brake, instead of covering my front brake. For example, during regular street traffic (in cities), I would only use throttle and then forecast when I needed to brake, like when there were intersections, I saw a red light or stop sign, etc... and I practiced using both front and back brakes. Basically, in "regular" traffic, I was used to smoothly using both front and rear brake to stop and don't have a problem there. However, I realize that for the twisty roads, I was very uncomfortable with using back brake. I initially over-relied on my back brake, but doing so, likely caused these brakes to give out twice before going downhill (meaning I might have been unconsciously have been riding the brake). I looked at brakes and brake pad and everything looks fine, but also I'm wondering if rear brakes are just really crappy at braking (or something iffy with my Ninja). While on center stand, pushing brake, does stop wheel, but perhaps I always assumed rear-brake was weak (and only focused on using rear-brake for gentle braking, and front brake for stronger braking). And, as I mentioned before, I didn't cover front brake because I didn't feel I was going that fast and thought I should use the "engine braking" technique + rear brake to provide me with enough stopping power. Of course, on a steep down incline hill, I used front/ rear brake (trying not to ride brakes) to slow down, but different parts of these twisties, I was still working out whether engine braking worked better / back brake / front&back brake etc... was best technique.
Lessons:?
Luckily, I've been riding pretty conservatively so this could have been much worse (especially if I went over the cliff on the other side), but the summary is, I got over-confident, thought I knew all the turns, took turn with a bit too much speed, then I panicked from metal grates (due to mental history), and ended up in a ditch. I feel that I should re-think my "attitude" of trying to "rack up miles" and trying to learn as fast as possible on technically challenging roads (and riding for long hours to my limit) and instead take it much slower from now on after I get my bike fixed. Hopefully this story helps other BARFers. I would appreciate other people's thoughts of where my thinking was wrong, and how I could improve in the future (and whether I was being completely retarded trying to learn on twisties as a new rider.)
I also, would like advice on how to better brake properly and if engine-braking strategy is wrong, or is it better to always cover brakes.
Thanks
(Sorry if it sounds long and rambley).
Crash: (Happened around 6 PM)
I uploaded a picture of the exact turn of where I went into ditch.
Here is the turn:
http://imgur.com/rLyzq
Ditch: (I was going west-bound up Mount Hamilton)
http://imgur.com/SmPIW
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=mount...roGJcZGj1vwtOFO0e4iUgg&cbp=11,263.58,,0,12.91
I found the exact location by eye-balling and Google Maps, and as you can see from the above link that I was almost to the top of Mount Hamilton.
Story:
After making this left blind turn (as you can see from the map), I realized I was going a bit too fast, and that I would then have to make a sharp right turn. I've done turns thousands of times and I had no problems turning before on this route. But something about what I saw made me panic. Basically, I saw the metal gratings from the cattle guard, and I instantly panicked / target fixated on it. I'm trying to think why ?why? why?, and maybe it was from DMV manual, to stories on BARF, and even dropping my bike due to front tire getting caught in the metal tram-lines in San Francisco, that I mentally associated metal = danger, extreme likelihood of loss of traction, and that the answer is to ride perpendicular to any metal gratings to prevent loss of traction (strong mental warning went through my head). However, the cattle guard was right where I needed to turn make a sharp right turn. So, instead of turning right (natural turn), when I saw metal, I only half turned right, tried to brake, but failed, and went into ditch since I took the turn wide. Luckily I wasn't going too fast (I don't know exact speed), but before I could say Crap Crap Crap, I found myself in the ditch, pinned under my motorcycle. I then managed to wiggle from under bike, shut off engine, turned off switch, took off gear, then tried to pull up bike. Since it was too far deep in he ditch, I had to flag down (2 groups of good Samaritans) who helped me pull Ninja 250 out (only 360lb wet weight). Luckily I didn't upgrade to a heavier bike and took the advice to start on a 250, otherwise I'd likely be in much worse shape).
Damage:
Regarding me, my right shoulder is a bit sore on where I went down, but I have full mobility there and I don't think I'm really injured (will see in the morning). Since I was drilled in ATGATT philosophy, I wore: Alpinestars Ridge Riding boots (protected my ankles), Shift Enforcer Knee pads (scuffed my left knee, so it must have protected my knees a lot), Drayko (Draggin Jeans), Alpinestars Textile jacket (with Rubber CE inserts in elbow / shoulder), Teknic gautlet gloves (got really dirty) and Shoei RF-1000 helmet. I mainly went down on my right side, and my boots protected my ankles and my pants got dirty but everything looks fine. (No rips etc...) Probably the way I went down, there was wiggle room that allowed me to just force / tunnel my way out and I didn't knock into anything hard (avoided wall), and very lucky I wasn't going very fast.
Bike Damage:
After realizing I was still breathing, I unpinned myself, took off my gear, shut off engine, took key out, and tried pushing my bike out (it was almost upside down) and I got it lying flat, but I then resigned to flagging down passing motorists. A couple in a Miata stopped, and then another couple in a Honda 1300 cruiser motorcycle stopped as well, and together we managed to pull out the bike out.
Unfortunately it seemed on my poor Ninja 250, that the forks were bent, and I was about to resign that I was screwed, (middle of nowhere far away from home) until one guy thought of an idea to try to try straighten it (like re-bending back the forks like a bent bicycle fork until steering was partially re-aligned). So we went to the metal cattle guard to hold wheel in place, he gave it few good twists, and managed to bend steering back so it was only 5-10 degrees off to the left when before it was more like 30-40 degrees off. After a bit, I managed to start up bike, and the good Samaritans were nice enough to follow me down on my descent down Mount Hamilton to make sure I didn't have any problems. After I got down safely, I was running low on gas, so unfortunately had to make a decision to detour to Patterson and ride all the way from Patterson back to Berkeley instead of keeping on Mines Rd. (Was at 140 miles on odometer). After the crash, I took riding as easy as possible and road about 100 miles on my poor bike, back to Berkeley.
Specific damage report:
Damage = Front Fork bent. I also noticed light is focused on a bit lower angle, front fairing cracked and fairing above wheel is cracked. Everything else about the bike looks fine, all the lights worked, engine worked, and I managed to ride about 100 miles trip back. Hopefully no frame damage (crossing fingures) but tomorrow, I'll get it checked out more thoroughly.
Background Info: (This might help or maybe it is useless, but I think figuring out my mindset as a new rider might be the key to figure out why I crashed and can hopefully benefit others who are thinking like me).
#1: Background: New rider, been riding for about 3 months on a 2005 Ninja 250. I've been reading up on as much as possible, learning from fellow Barfers and anyone I could meet, and been obsessed with riding in any spare time I had, even though I'm a graduate student.
#2: Regarding point #1, after getting bike practically new, in 3 months, I racked up about 3.4k miles, mainly on twisty roads (from Redwoods, Lake Berryessa, Muir, Highway 9 etc...) anywhere I could find on Google maps. After going through twisty roads multiple times, I even started riding until after it got dark, and have ridden the roads at night, commuted back from San Jose to Berkeley in the dark, during rain etc... Sadly, tonight, I literally pushed myself a bit over my riding limit.
#3: Rode for over 6 hours before crash. Started from Berkeley to Antioch (to check out someone selling parts) then down Deer Valley Rd -> Marsh Creek Rd -> Morgan Territory Road all the way to Livermore. Stopped for about an hour at the Wine Festival (didn't drink) they had at Livermore, then went to Patterson via Highway 580, so that I could do Del Puerto Canyon Road going Westward (which is a road I never took before). I wasn't driving fast at all, since this was a new road, so I got to the junction to San Antonio Valley Rd. and took that south and then West on 130 towards Mount Hamilton
#4: I got complacent and overconfident, because I had went up Mount Hamilton about 3-4 times already (and on Friday / Saturday, I road Mount Hamilton going both West and East (from San Jose Foothills), even when it was getting dark and took Mines road north to Livermore and then to Berkeley.
#5: About a month into riding, I was going down Mount Diablo, and I realized my back brake stopped working, and I thought I must have been riding my back brake too much. The reason why I theorize this, is that I pulled over, right away, and felt my back rotor was very hot. I let it cool, and then back brake worked again. I was unsure what was wrong, so I learned how to bleed brakes (from tutorials online and friend). Then about 1 week ago, I was going down Pinehurst Rd. (from Berkeley hills), and my back brake stopped working again (pressed down lever and nothing wasn't happening). I got to the bottom of the road (near the fire road), touched the back rotor (burned my fingers), then let it cool. Rear brake started working again after several minutes of cooling (I saw steam coming out) and then I bled brake when I got back home again.
#6: Hence, from that week forward, I realized if I was developing a bad habit of over-using back-brake and possibly sub-consciously riding rear brake (especially going downhill), I then figured I should force myself to ride, by not covering my back brake at all, and focus on using "engine braking" by shifting to lower gears if I was going too fast. This is a theory, but possibly, if I had been covering the back brake while riding, I could have braked earlier, rather then try turning, and then would have avoided the ditch.
#7: I also realize now, that I have a tendency not to use front brake. Due to the position of the front brake lever, I find it hard to "cover it" by extending my fingers, so I couldn't figure out a good method of covering front brake and twisting throttle (maybe I need adjustable shifters).
To clarify this a bit more, I separated my usage of operating the throttle and operating my front brake. I would pre-plan before using my front brake, instead of covering my front brake. For example, during regular street traffic (in cities), I would only use throttle and then forecast when I needed to brake, like when there were intersections, I saw a red light or stop sign, etc... and I practiced using both front and back brakes. Basically, in "regular" traffic, I was used to smoothly using both front and rear brake to stop and don't have a problem there. However, I realize that for the twisty roads, I was very uncomfortable with using back brake. I initially over-relied on my back brake, but doing so, likely caused these brakes to give out twice before going downhill (meaning I might have been unconsciously have been riding the brake). I looked at brakes and brake pad and everything looks fine, but also I'm wondering if rear brakes are just really crappy at braking (or something iffy with my Ninja). While on center stand, pushing brake, does stop wheel, but perhaps I always assumed rear-brake was weak (and only focused on using rear-brake for gentle braking, and front brake for stronger braking). And, as I mentioned before, I didn't cover front brake because I didn't feel I was going that fast and thought I should use the "engine braking" technique + rear brake to provide me with enough stopping power. Of course, on a steep down incline hill, I used front/ rear brake (trying not to ride brakes) to slow down, but different parts of these twisties, I was still working out whether engine braking worked better / back brake / front&back brake etc... was best technique.
Lessons:?
Luckily, I've been riding pretty conservatively so this could have been much worse (especially if I went over the cliff on the other side), but the summary is, I got over-confident, thought I knew all the turns, took turn with a bit too much speed, then I panicked from metal grates (due to mental history), and ended up in a ditch. I feel that I should re-think my "attitude" of trying to "rack up miles" and trying to learn as fast as possible on technically challenging roads (and riding for long hours to my limit) and instead take it much slower from now on after I get my bike fixed. Hopefully this story helps other BARFers. I would appreciate other people's thoughts of where my thinking was wrong, and how I could improve in the future (and whether I was being completely retarded trying to learn on twisties as a new rider.)
I also, would like advice on how to better brake properly and if engine-braking strategy is wrong, or is it better to always cover brakes.
Thanks
Last edited:
