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So, We Are Going to the Moon Today Huh?

BillSmith said:
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That was brilliant Bill, Thank you.

The more I spend time observing nature, the more I believe that man’s motivation for exploration is but the sophistication of a universal instinctive drive deeply ingrained in all living creatures. Life is growth-individuals and species grow in size, in number, and in territory. The peripheral manifestation of growing is exploring the outside world.
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When the impulse to explore built in each individual human being is confined or antagonized by a rigid social or familiar structure, it may be forced into unnatural drives — exploring alcohol, drugs, or sexual perversions. Drug addicts are perverted explorers. Today, most of the modern explorations are protecting the mind inside out. They need collective efforts, being no more at the scale of an individual. When the tools are not there — money, technology, instruments — some human minds, on the contrary, turn themselves outside in, looking towards immediate knowledge through contemplation. The exploration drive, pure and natural, is associated with risk, freedom, initiative, and lateral thinking. The enemies of the exploration spirit are mainly the sense of security and responsibility, red tape, and exclusive vertical thinking.
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Some real gems there. :thumbup
 
So what are we going to do different on the moon this time vs last time?
 
Mike95060 said:
I don't know Geoff. Do you think we learned everything there is to know already?
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Found this.

The US is returning to the moon through the Artemis program to establish a permanent, sustainable human presence, using it as a testbed for technology to enable future human missions to Mars. Key motivations include scientific discovery at the lunar South Pole, developing a "lunar economy" with commercial partners, and securing strategic dominance in space.
 
Why can’t we work harder to eliminate hunger and population growth and religions and despotic governments? Going to the moon should be last on the list of things to do.
 
augustiron said:
We are going to the moon so we can expand hunger, population, religions and despotic governments
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I don't doubt that. ALL space technology is dual use. From launch vehicles to payload, most everything everything used in space is capable of being a weapon. My fallback is again, what do we as a society value and want the most? The best weapons to dominate or the most knowledge for us all to live well? I think it is on us to choose and choose wisely. I'm not saying we have.
 
We should work towards happiness.

That means populations should reflect what the planet can provide. It should also have a built in fudge factor.

Religions should be eliminated as we don’t need them to be moral people. And it fills people’s minds with useless, man made fantasies.

Eliminating hunger goes a LONG ways toward making people happy. A person who has a full belly is a content person.

And despotic governments create stress and unhappiness.
 
ST Guy said:
Why can’t we work harder to eliminate hunger and population growth and religions and despotic governments? Going to the moon should be last on the list of things to do.
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We can do more than 1 thing at a time.
 
Yes, we can. And shooting people to the moon should NOT be one of them.

When we have accomplished all the things I’ve mentioned, only then should we look at the moon and beyond. Until then it’s a frivolous waste of energy and resources.
 
So what you said doesn’t tell me anything. What is your bad news?

And I know most of what I mentioned isn’t being worked on.
 
Bon voyage and Godspeed, astronauts. Best of luck to all onboard and at NASA. I hope the space loo (locker below the cabin floor) has a well stocked library and good sound deadening. Apparently any noise made while within is clearly audible to the rest of the crew. Ah well, they have been practically living together for some time now, so all should be good! :cool::poop:
 
BTW, I watched the first two episodes of "For All Mankind" last night on Apple TV. It offers an alternate reality for the Apollo program and the moon landings.
 
900ss said:
BTW, I watched the first two episodes of "For All Mankind" last night on Apple TV. It offers an alternate reality for the Apollo program and the moon landings.
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Were they finally able to confirm the earth is flat....from way, way up there?
 
ha, the t rump has issued an executive order renaming the mission to the Donald J. Trump Moon Mission.
 
Brah, I'm not watching an hour long YT video. :rolleyes:


In this video, Destin Sandlin of Smarter Every Day delivers a keynote speech at the 2023 Von Braun Space Exploration Symposium. He addresses industry leaders and NASA officials, offering a critical yet constructive perspective on the Artemis program by comparing it to the Apollo era [01:03].

Key Technical Critiques​

  • Orion and Lunar Orbit: Destin argues that the choice of a Near Rectilinear Halo Orbit (NRHO) for Artemis—instead of the Low Lunar Orbit (LLO) used by Apollo—was largely driven by the Orion spacecraft's lack of sufficient Delta V (propulsion capability) rather than for communication benefits [24:12].
  • Refueling Complexity: He highlights the logistical challenge of the current architecture, which requires an estimated 15+ rocket launches just to refuel a single lunar lander in orbit [31:09]. He notes that humans have never performed cryogenic refueling in space, making this a significant "technological miracle" on the critical path [43:43].
  • Simplicity vs. Complexity: He contrasts the Apollo approach—which prioritized extreme simplicity and manual redundancies (such as astronauts carrying bolt cutters to separate landing stages)—with the high complexity of modern mission designs [41:09].

The "Playbook" for Success​

Destin urges the current generation of engineers to study NASA SP-287, a document titled "What Made Apollo a Success" [38:35]. He emphasizes several principles from this era:
  • Negative Feedback: Drawing a parallel to PID control loops in engineering, he stresses that systems (and organizations) become unstable without honest, negative feedback [19:28].
  • Rigorous Testing: He cites historical data showing that 5% of Apollo components failed during testing, allowing engineers to identify design and workmanship flaws before they became fatal [48:31].
  • High-Stakes Training: He discusses the importance of free-flight trainers like the Lunar Landing Test Vehicle (LLTV), arguing that psychological readiness is best achieved when an astronaut's life is actually on the line during training [50:50].

The "Backwards Bicycle" Metaphor​

To illustrate the difficulty of changing organizational mindsets, Destin demonstrates his "backwards bicycle"—a bike where turning the handles left makes the wheel go right [55:09]. He uses this to show that having "knowledge" of a system is different from having an "understanding" of it. He warns that deeply ingrained ways of thinking (the "old algorithm") can prevent engineers and leaders from seeing simpler or more effective solutions [59:05].
The talk concludes with a call for the aerospace community to be "thinkers and doers" who are willing to ask difficult questions and prioritize the mission's success over technological demonstrations [01:01:43].
 
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