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Throttle and Braking Technique

OP, you might make sure your levers are adjusted properly. Then it's just a matter of practice. I have 2 fingers brake and clutch at all times, always done it that way.
 
For the street always cover the brake. Period. The half second you save is the half second that saves your life. At 60 mph you move 88 feet per second. Not having to move your hand to brake can save your life.

The track is different, completely different.
 
afm199 said:
For the street always cover the brake. Period. The half second you save is the half second that saves your life. At 60 mph you move 88 feet per second. Not having to move your hand to brake can save your life.

The track is different, completely different.
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:thumbup Precisely/Exactly :thumbup

I ride where I need this. Blind corners, on coming traffic/chowder head drivers...
Narrow roads with no center line.

I ride there because, I thrive on the challenge.

For myself (and can only speak for myself) I brake with One finger Up graded my brakes to feel right for that, both in sensitivity and strength.

That turns that right hand into one control...The one hand can do both functions at the same time.
 
I typically cover the brake with my index finger all the time track or street. It's also my throttle control dampener over bumpy sections and/or will become my cruise control feature on hiways

$0.02
 
Do you have adjustable brake/clutch levers? That might help (moves the lever a little closer to the grip so it's not such a stretch). I'm not sure how to describe it, but I guess I grip the throttle (not a death grip) between the thumb and the palm and have the index, middle and ring finger draped over the lever. There's enough overhang that when I rotate the throttle, I can still grip the brake lever. I started doing it the past 3 to 4 mos...I initially tried two fingers, but found that three is more comfortable..
 
So, wait, how many of your are on the brakes, making your downshifts, and blipping the throttle? I'm just on the brakes and downshifting... Sorry if this got things off track...
 
kelsodeez said:
i make an "Ok" sign with my hand. the throttle goes into the loop and the 3 fingers go on the brake lever. that way you can blip the throttle and have good control of the front brakes. just practice it and it will become second nature....then you will buy a bike with a slipper clutch and fuck all that muscle memory up.
Click to expand...

:thumbup so I tried a number of techniques last weekend. The above quoted was the most comfortable. Still a little funky but its now getting comfortable. Thanks for the suggestions.
 
clutchslip said:
Are you expecting to have contact or be above the brake at all times? That isn't possible with a normal throttle and normal sized hands. You just get use to holding your finger(s) above the lever level, so when you close throttle they go over the lever to the correct braking position. I use my two middle fingers, because my hands were too small when I started riding to cover with the index. Some do it middle fingers, some use the index finger. I like have the index finger available for better throttle control.
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I too use the middle and left to it fingers. Cant get my index finger on the brake. So, I use the middle 2 fingers. Either I have a small hand (I wear M gloves), or the lever design needs to be custom made for me....lol. I do have a speedmetal Adjustable lever though... :rolleyes
 
If you decide to keep one or two fingers covering the brake make sure you adjust your lever so that your fingers are in line with your hand. No sharp bends to cover the lever. it makes it way more comfortable.
 
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100% said:
Here's a really cool video of throttle blipping while on the brakes...140mph>>>throttle closed>>>brakes>>>two downshifts with throttle blips while on the brakes...tip into the corner...

He does get off that front brake pretty quickly, but it looks like he knows what he's doing...

This could be instructive for Thunderhill T-1...

http://http://player.vimeo.com/video/28492071?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&autoplay=1
Click to expand...

Difficult to tell from the video how much pressure he had on the lever just before getting the fingers off it and whole hand around the grip.
 
M-x butterfly said:
Can someone comment on throttle blipping vs. just not letting off the gas?
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It settles the bike on downshifts, allowing for smooth downshifts without upsetting the chassis (i.e. locking up the rear or engaging your slipper clutch)...
 
Last edited:
100% said:
It settles the bike on downshifts, allowing for smooth downshifts without upsetting the chassis (i.e. locking up the rear or engaging your slipper clutch)...
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't think I was clear.

Staying on the gas:
1. [Right hand] holding throttle steady
[Left hand] Pull in clutch
--> Revs go up
2. Downshift
3. [Right hand] holding throttle steady, still
[Left hand] Let out clutch

Because the revs went up when the clutch was pulled in, depending on how quickly the clutch was let in-and-out, the engine will be rev matched for the downshift. No blipping was involved. The shift is still smooth and doesn't unsettle the chassis.

Throttle blipping:
1. [Right hand] Partially close throttle
[Left hand] Pull in clutch
2. [Right hand] Quickly open throttle
[Left foot] Downshift
--> Engine revs a little higher and starts coming down
3. Let out clutch

By the time the clutch is being let out, the engine has the inertia from the throttle blip and carries higher RPM that (hopefully) matches the road speed for the selected gear. This is also a smooth shift.

But, keeping steady on the throttle is easier than blipping the correct amount, right? What am I missing about blipping?
 
M-x butterfly said:
But, keeping steady on the throttle is easier than blipping the correct amount, right? What am I missing about blipping?
Click to expand...

That your method runs the revs sky high. If you are already at red line when you downshift......................

I know some racers use this "method" but they don't keep the throttle pinned, they back it off most of the way.
 
afm199 said:
That your method runs the revs sky high. If you are already at red line when you downshift......................
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I don't know about that...If I'm cruising along at 6k in 6th gear, I can quickly pull in the clutch a bit and smoothly downshift to 5th gear without varying the throttle. The revs go up to 7-7.5k at most, but the important thing is that the shift is buttery. I probably don't need to say this: even though I listed those things above as steps, it happens all at once. I can understand that revs will skyrocket if you actually pull the clutch in and go to town with your right hand...

Edit: I just saw you ride a SV, too. If you have stock gearing (I don't know if there's a difference between the naked and sport gearing), do you notice the same thing? 6k in 6th gear is roughly 80MPH, and pulling in the clutch to downshift to 5th gives all the RPM increase needed to smooth out the downshift.

In my mind, throttle blipping raises the RPM to match engine speed and road speed. Modulating how much of the clutch is pulled in and for how long the clutch is pulled in /also/ controls RPM increase. But, this requires clutching into the friction zone (not completely disengaging the clutch). When people throttle blip, do they let off the throttle by a lot, fully disengage the clutch, blip, and re-engage? I always try not to leave the friction zone while throttle blipping, but my blipped downshifts aren't as smooth as my steady-throttle downshifts.
 
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M-x butterfly said:
Sorry, I don't think I was clear.

Staying on the gas:
1. [Right hand] holding throttle steady
[Left hand] Pull in clutch
--> Revs go up
2. Downshift
3. [Right hand] holding throttle steady, still
[Left hand] Let out clutch

Because the revs went up when the clutch was pulled in, depending on how quickly the clutch was let in-and-out, the engine will be rev matched for the downshift. No blipping was involved. The shift is still smooth and doesn't unsettle the chassis.

Throttle blipping:
1. [Right hand] Partially close throttle
[Left hand] Pull in clutch
2. [Right hand] Quickly open throttle
[Left foot] Downshift
--> Engine revs a little higher and starts coming down
3. Let out clutch

By the time the clutch is being let out, the engine has the inertia from the throttle blip and carries higher RPM that (hopefully) matches the road speed for the selected gear. This is also a smooth shift.

But, keeping steady on the throttle is easier than blipping the correct amount, right? What am I missing about blipping?
Click to expand...

This is very confusing. Are we talking about downshifting or upshifting? Here's what I know:

Downshifting with blipping

  1. Smooth, quick transition from full throttle to full brake
  2. Leaving just enough time for the following steps, continue through the braking zone holding same gear
  3. Apply light pressure on the shifter in the direction of downshift
  4. Blip throttle (about quarter opening), pull in clutch just enough to get into the friction zone
  5. Let the shifter move due to gearbox pressure being relieved and smoothly but quickly release the clutch lever

Substeps listed in steps 4 and 5 must happen simultaneously. Furthermore, steps 4 and 5 are barely separate themselves. Think of everything in steps 4 and 5 as one smooth motion.

Downshifting with steady throttle
  1. Smooth, quick transition from full throttle to full brake
  2. Leaving just enough time for the following steps, continue through the braking zone holding same gear
  3. Apply light pressure on the shifter in the direction of downshift
  4. Pull in clutch fully through the friction zone
  5. Let the shifter move due to gearbox pressure being relieved and smoothly and controllably release the clutch lever, watching for rear end wiggle if not equipped with a slipper clutch

Downshifting clutchless
  1. Smooth, quick transition from full throttle to full brake
  2. Leaving just enough time for the following steps, continue through the braking zone holding same gear
  3. Apply light pressure on the shifter in the direction of downshift
  4. Blip throttle (about quarter opening)
  5. Let the shifter move due to gearbox pressure being relieved

In this case, knowing how much to blip the throttle is crucial to smooth shifts. Also, this is very difficult to do when initial pressure on the gearbox is small or when gear ratios are not close enough or the throw between gears on the lever is large (like some bikes have between 2nd and 1st).
 
Alexey said:
This is very confusing.
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Sorry :/
Alexey said:
Downshifting with blipping

  1. Smooth, quick transition from full throttle to full brake
  2. Leaving just enough time for the following steps, continue through the braking zone holding same gear
  3. Apply light pressure on the shifter in the direction of downshift
  4. Blip throttle (about quarter opening), pull in clutch just enough to get into the friction zone
  5. Let the shifter move due to gearbox pressure being relieved and smoothly but quickly release the clutch lever

Substeps listed in steps 4 and 5 must happen simultaneously. Furthermore, steps 4 and 5 are barely separate themselves. Think of everything in steps 4 and 5 as one smooth motion.
Click to expand...
Thanks, this is a pretty good way to articulate what you're doing.

Alexey said:
Downshifting with steady throttle
  1. Smooth, quick transition from full throttle to full brake
  2. Leaving just enough time for the following steps, continue through the braking zone holding same gear
  3. Apply light pressure on the shifter in the direction of downshift
  4. Pull in clutch fully through the friction zone
  5. Let the shifter move due to gearbox pressure being relieved and smoothly and controllably release the clutch lever, watching for rear end wiggle if not equipped with a slipper clutch
Click to expand...

Sorry, we have different definitions of "steady throttle" (I suspect yours is more correct and mine is supporting an otherwise academic point). When I say steady throttle, I mean hold it at whatever openness it's currently at. If I'm going 65MPH in 5th gear, I have throttle open by some amount. Let's say I don't move my right hand at all -- no braking, no change in throttle. I can downshift to 4th and rev match by pulling the clutch into the friction zone, downshifting, and letting the clutch fully re-engage. From here, I can modulate the throttle slightly to sustain 65MPH. I realize that this doesn't achieve much...But, it's a smooth gear shift without blipping, right?
Alexey said:
Downshifting clutchless
  1. Smooth, quick transition from full throttle to full brake
  2. Leaving just enough time for the following steps, continue through the braking zone holding same gear
  3. Apply light pressure on the shifter in the direction of downshift
  4. Blip throttle (about quarter opening)
  5. Let the shifter move due to gearbox pressure being relieved

In this case, knowing how much to blip the throttle is crucial to smooth shifts. Also, this is very difficult to do when initial pressure on the gearbox is small or when gear ratios are not close enough or the throw between gears on the lever is large (like some bikes have between 2nd and 1st).
Click to expand...
I'm pretty far away from being able to consistently pull this one off :)

Thanks for your post. It does a great job of putting a coordinated set of actions into words.
 
Downshifting while braking does not allow you to stop faster. Engine braking slows the bike the same way the rear brake does, by slowing the wheel down. The hardest you can slow down is limited by the grip your tires have, and you can easily max out or exceed that grip using brakes alone.

if people find downshifting makes them slow down faster, that means they aren't using both brakes as hard as they could.

But of course when you downshift while braking into a corner, there will be some amount of engine braking. So, for the overall target "how hard you want to slow down", the more you minimize engine braking the more can be taken care of using the brakes.
 
tonedeaf said:
Downshifting while braking does not allow you to stop faster. Engine braking slows the bike the same way the rear brake does, by slowing the wheel down.
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I mentioned this on the first page of this thread, but no one responded to it till now. Thanks for providing some more insight.

Anyway, I just wanted to revisit this thread to say that Alexey provided the best written description of throttle blipping available on the Internet. Seriously, Google around. :thumbup
 
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