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Crashed today, 08/29/12

  • Thanks.
  • The nice thing about my cruiser's pegs is that they can pivot, so they usually give a little before becoming a hazard of being a lever point.
  • I was always under the impression that until you get to the very edge of the tire, you still have usable traction/lean angle to work with, hence the ribbing about "chicken strips". I was kind of proud that I probably had some of the thinnest chicken strips you'll find on a cruiser.

Perhaps I'll just dial it back a bit until I get some better rubber on the front, as most seem to agree the Dunlop D404 sucks. But again, I have never felt like I was on the verge of losing traction before that day (other than the time I nearly lost it through some dirt/debris). I've had complete faith that I was not truly at the limit.
 
Chicken strips tell little about available lean angle. Only about available tire. Chicken strip size depends on lean angle, but also tire pressure/construction. Depending on the bike/tire/body position/etc, a bike may slide long before using all the tire. The opposite is also possible. You can be using all the tire, but still lean more without sliding.
 
Enchanter said:
The amount of unused tread on a tire is not a reliable measurement for how much lean angle the motorcycle is capable of.
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:thumbup

I've seen some very fast guys come in from a race with unused tire because the geometry of the bike dictates maximum lean angle, not the tire profile.
 
Unsettling to have a fall off and not have a clear explanation in one's head as to the reason. I recently had a similar experience. Personally, I really don't like paint on the road. Sometimes it's pretty grippy and sometimes it's like ice. So if there is a line in the road, I give it enormous respect (much more so than many of the guys I ride with). Paranoid? probably! The cause of your lowside? I don't know. As someone said above, the paint looks worn not fresh. nonetheless, your story reinforces this paranoia of mine.
 
I have to agree. Although it looks worn, where it's still thick looks quite smooth (slick), and given where the scrape marks begin relative to the crosswalk line, my suspicion is that it was the ultimate cause of the loss of traction.

While going slower clearly would prevent the crash, I do not believe the speed in and of itself was the real cause, but more like a contributing factor to what happened.
 
Paint can definitely be unpredictable, I would look towards that as the initial cause of your mishap. Glad you're mostly undamaged. And please, get some better tires on that bike. The D404's really are garbage.
 
I've got the matching front to the rear I took off the parts bike that I'm going to get installed tomorrow. End of the Dunlops for me!
 
DaveT319 said:
I've got the matching front to the rear I took off the parts bike that I'm going to get installed tomorrow. End of the Dunlops for me!
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Dave,

Sorry to hear about your crash; glad you're okay man!

NEW D404's are good.. old and worn D404's are bad.. I use D404's almost exclusively. There is no bad tire, just a bad tire for the weight of the bike and for your bike 404's are perfect.

Since I worked on your bike once before a few years back;(and I know its even more shagged than it was before) I'm gonna take a educated guess and say that your suspension is part of the handling problem.. okay.. 90% and the other 5% is tires and maybe another 5% is bad swing arm bearings and other bits like steering head bearings. (I'm not blaming you at all man..hahah)

Get some cartridge emulators, fresh oil and freshen up your forks.. Shit, I'll even do the install and replace the fork seals for you if you ride up here, it'll take an hour of so. Probably longer if we get to talking.

Also, the rear shock needs it's oil changed..

Don't discount that your bike isn't worn out and needing some service; it probably rides like a po-go stick..
 
Ironbutt said:
Dave,

Sorry to hear about your crash; glad you're okay man!

NEW D404's are good.. old and worn D404's are bad.. I use D404's almost exclusively. There is no bad tire, just a bad tire for the weight of the bike and for your bike 404's are perfect.

Since I worked on your bike once before a few years back;(and I know its even more shagged than it was before) I'm gonna take a educated guess and say that your suspension is part of the handling problem.. okay.. 90% and the other 5% is tires and maybe another 5% is bad swing arm bearings and other bits like steering head bearings. (I'm not blaming you at all man..hahah)

Get some cartridge emulators, fresh oil and freshen up your forks.. Shit, I'll even do the install and replace the fork seals for you if you ride up here, it'll take an hour of so. Probably longer if we get to talking.

Also, the rear shock needs it's oil changed..

Don't discount that your bike isn't worn out and needing some service; it probably rides like a po-go stick..
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer, but we recently moved up to Eugene, OR, so having you do them is out of the question!

Interestingly, I had already been thinking that I needed to replace the fork oil. Hadn't thought about doing the rear too, but might as well while I'm at it. Since I'll have the front tire off, it'll be a piece of cake to take the forks off and change the oil out.

Still, I'm not sure that's the cause of the crash. I've ridden on MUCH bumpier roads than where I went down while going quickly and scraping the pegs and never had a problem. While the suspension could indeed use a "freshening", it's probably not really why I crashed, but it's maybe a small contributing factor.
 
Dave, the combination of you stating that you were off the throttle, that you sometimes drag a peg through this turn and what sounds like a lowside from sliding the front, I'd propose it's possible you are habitually late getting back on the gas.

In any corner, whether you have turned in gradually while on the brakes or quickly after braking is done, you want to crack the gas open as soon as you have reached max lean angle. This not only optimizes traction, but increases your cornering clearance, as both ends of the suspension are more extended while on the gas than off.

You may be right that the paint helped to initiate the slide, but the chances are you could have gotten through the corner if the gas was cracked open at that point.
 
tzrider said:
In any corner, whether you have turned in gradually while on the brakes or quickly after braking is done, you want to crack the gas open as soon as you have reached max lean angle. This not only optimizes traction, but increases your cornering clearance, as both ends of the suspension are more extended while on the gas than off.

You may be right that the paint helped to initiate the slide, but the chances are you could have gotten through the corner if the gas was cracked open at that point.
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Sounds like you're assuming his rear started to slide. Too many unknowns. If his front washed out, loading the rear wouldn't have done much for him.

The whole discussion is a little moot though, IMO. Intersections are filthy, cluttered, congested, upredictable, and *not* the place to be dragging pegs.
 
tzrider said:
Dave, the combination of you stating that you were off the throttle, that you sometimes drag a peg through this turn and what sounds like a lowside from sliding the front, I'd propose it's possible you are habitually late getting back on the gas.

In any corner, whether you have turned in gradually while on the brakes or quickly after braking is done, you want to crack the gas open as soon as you have reached max lean angle. This not only optimizes traction, but increases your cornering clearance, as both ends of the suspension are more extended while on the gas than off.

You may be right that the paint helped to initiate the slide, but the chances are you could have gotten through the corner if the gas was cracked open at that point.
Click to expand...

I'll have to consider that a bit, and pay attention to how I manipulate the throttle through a corner. Obviously I get off the gas to get down to the proper speed, but I don't think I'm completely off the gas at the apex, otherwise I'd be continuing to slow just due to the engine. So I think before I reach the apex, I'm back on the gas to maintain speed, and about the time I reach and pass the apex I am starting to add throttle to increase speed and pick the bike up.

So maybe I just wasn't clear when I stated "getting back on the gas" I meant starting to ADD throttle to increase speed coming out of the corner, not just at that moment turning the throttle which to that point had been closed. Does that make sense? As I said, next time I go out I've try to make note of exactly what I do in a corner, but what I said above is how I think I do it now.
 
DaveT319 said:
So I think before I reach the apex, I'm back on the gas to maintain speed, and about the time I reach and pass the apex I am starting to add throttle to increase speed and pick the bike up.
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To add food for thought, if you're not turning the throttle, you have a forward weight bias.
 
Ol' Gravy Leg said:
Your reaction times are way faster than mine; because when my front end washes, I become a passenger. Just happens too damn fast at steeper lean angles.
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We're not talking about reaction times. My point is that by opening the throttle earlier in the turn (not in response to a slide, where it's too late), the rider optimizes traction and is less exposed to the possibility of a front end slide. The bike has a forward static weight bias. The front is thus carrying too much of the load until the rider is on the gas and under light acceleration.
 
Ol' Gravy Leg said:
I see. This is preventative medicine, not woulda-shoulda-coulda.
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It's OK, he's got a valid point. And for the record, I went out today and really thought about how I go through a turn, and what I said before is accurate:
DaveT319 said:
Obviously I get off the gas to get down to the proper speed, but I don't think I'm completely off the gas at the apex, otherwise I'd be continuing to slow just due to the engine. So I think before I reach the apex, I'm back on the gas to maintain speed, and about the time I reach and pass the apex I am starting to add throttle to increase speed and pick the bike up.
Click to expand...
 
Glad you're ok, Dave. (Can I just say that, and not analyze the crash? I know this is Enchanter's domain...oh, ok, I'll play)
I'd point to the scrape marks' location relative to the crosswalk paint. The fog line looks fairly new and slick, it's possible you touched that while apexing the corner. Also Dave, debris that could cause the front to wash out may not be there afterwards, due to traffic "cleaning" it up.
 
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