Crashed today, 08/29/12

[DaveT319]

Glad you're ok, Dave. (Can I just say that, and not analyze the crash? I know this is Enchanter's domain...oh, ok, I'll play)
I'd point to the scrape marks' location relative to the crosswalk paint. The fog line looks fairly new and slick, it's possible you touched that while apexing the corner. Also Dave, debris that could cause the front to wash out may not be there afterwards, due to traffic "cleaning" it up.

Thanks. The rash is healing up pretty well. Thank god nothing broke.

I don't think I caught the fog line, but it's possible. Thought I was further left than that.

Yeah, there could have been debris, but I sure don't recall seeing any as I made the turn, and I looked back there after I got back up and didn't see anything obvious.

 

[iehawk]

While the strips may not be as slippery as the newly painted ones, being on the side, they are parts of the road less traveled.

As you go from the road surface to the stripped surface, there's a brief change in traction there. If you were on a gas (coming out of a turn), this brief 'transitional space' could cause enough power slip (like a skip).

Some bikes have an abrupt on/off throttle and this can cause that 'jump/skip'. One remedy is like what TZ said, crack the throttle open early. I used to have to do this on my old K1200R. It actually helped to stabilize the bike better through the corner path.

 

[Banjoboy]

Glad yer O.K. Dave, welcome to Oregon!

one of the last times I had ridden my bike, I had my wife on board. As such, I had added air to the tires and stiffened the suspension.

EDIT: My theory above is now out the window. Checked my tire pressures a short time ago and they are at 30/34.
Road:
Couldn't see anything unusual today when I took these pictures

So yer tyre pressures were ok, butt yer suspension wuz still jacked up from when the little woman wuz on back?

Personal observation from my own experience showed me that the Dunlop 404 is among the very worst tires possible. They let go often and for no apparent reason, which is why I threw away a perfectly good set and got Metzlers.

YMMV.

^THIS^

Can you describe your inputs to the throttle and handlebar in this turn? Did you roll off the throttle while leaned over? If so, was is abrupt? Were you gently pressing on the handlebar to initiate lean, or was it more of a quick firm input? Were you making a constant radius turn with a single input to the handlebar, or did you give multiple inputs to the bar? Was it your intention to scrape the peg in the turn this time? When you scrape the pegs at other times, would you describe it as the peg touching down gradually and then more, and more, or is it more of a instant touch (or multiple touches)?

Personally, I try not to ride so close to the edge of my limits (or the bike, or the environment) that if or when I encounter a problem, that I am not past the limit of recovery. I tend to ride at a pace somewhat less than where is suspect the limits to exsist.

It sounds like you frequently ride at the limit of your motorcycle. Scraping pegs should be a warning to you. The warning is: You are now at the limits of lean. Leaning more will now cause reduced traction.

I realize that in this instance the motorcycle was sliding/crashing before the pegs touched down, but I'm trying to address the method that you approach riding.

There's a lot of info in this pic; yer trajectory 'n scrape marks show you weren't go'in too fast, and the fact that yer scrape marks are going "down the road" (As opposed to shooting out into the oncoming lane) indicates you were past the apex when you lost the front.

My

1.) Yer dunlops SUCK!!! 3 yr old D404s? Look at the pic, there's no sign of a skid mark or tire sliding. You know why? Cuz there wuz no grip! Bias ply tyres suck, I'd see if'n thars sum way ta get radials fer that bike. with radials there's mor grip, and when they do slide it's much mor predictable, 'n controllable.
If ya can't get radials, I'd use the best bias ply tires I can find 'n change 'em every year no matter how worn they are. (At least the front anywayz) Tyres get hard over time and loose grip.

2.) The Oregon pavement might me a bit cooler than the valley pavement yer used too, give'in you less grip?

3.) Have'in yer suspension jacked up might make the tyres slide befoe the pegs (Or wutever) touches down.

I think these are the key factors, and I'm glad yer get'in a new(er) tyre, just hope it's better?

 

[DaveT319]

I think I followed all that...

Yes, I was definitely at or past the apex. I was either maintaining throttle or starting to add.

1) I will not be getting the Dunlops anymore. I had never really noticed a lack of grip before, but since it happened this time I think I've lost all confidence in them. Plus, they never seemed to last very long, so I was always rather disappointed with them in that respect.

2) Actually, at this time of year, it's warmer here than it would be in Salinas. That day I think it was in the 80s 90s, while back in Salinas it was in the 60s or 70s.

3) Even though I had apparently adjusted the tires back down, I in fact had not done the rear shocks. Pretty stupid, I know. But they are right now.

 

[RRrider]

Dave, the combination of you stating that you were off the throttle, that you sometimes drag a peg through this turn and what sounds like a lowside from sliding the front, I'd propose it's possible you are habitually late getting back on the gas.

In any corner, whether you have turned in gradually while on the brakes or quickly after braking is done, you want to crack the gas open as soon as you have reached max lean angle. This not only optimizes traction, but increases your cornering clearance, as both ends of the suspension are more extended while on the gas than off.

You may be right that the paint helped to initiate the slide, but the chances are you could have gotten through the corner if the gas was cracked open at that point.

This is my present prevailing theory.... It's very easy to be lazy getting on the gas, and to kind of coast your way through the beginning of the turn, and get on near apex as opposed to way back when you finished initiating the turn. One needs to be thinking about it and to be careful to get on gently very early. I guess this is more self reflection than it is an observation of you. But this is what I'm presently working on ....

 

[flying_hun]

This is my present prevailing theory.... It's very easy to be lazy getting on the gas, and to kind of coast your way through the beginning of the turn, and get on near apex as opposed to way back when you finished initiating the turn. One needs to be thinking about it and to be careful to get on gently very early. I guess this is more self reflection than it is an observation of you. But this is what I'm presently working on ....

I tend to agree, and it's worth pointing out that reaching maximum lean does not necessarily equal passing the apex of the turn. If a rider turns in late, maximum lean will often be achieved prior to reaching the apex, and the time between would be marked by having a high lean angle combined with a heavy load on the smaller of the two contact patches - a formula for losing the front.

 

[DaveT319]

It's been just over a month now. Rash has healed pretty decent, though I'm going to have some pretty gnarly scars for quite a while. But I'm finally getting my confidence back to where I can put the pegs on the ground again.

After some more consideration of that corner - and a few more trips by it - I have found that at the point that I went down, I was definitely back on the gas to accelerate out of it. So I think that, combined with going over the paint which is very smooth (I've stopped and looked at it close up), is what caused the front to tuck and me to go down.

So from now on I'm going to be MUCH more wary of painted lines, especially when I'm starting to accelerate and shift some of the weight off the front. I also think in general it will help me be more aware of surface conditions and when I should back off slightly.

And thanks for all the comments/questions. It really helped me analyze what went wrong so that I could arrive at the conclusion I have, which I think is the correct one.