i ate it on hwy9 and got real well acquainted with the road

[Enchanter]

Yes to correct my misunderstanding of your words.

The misunderstanding is directly linked to the words you choose to use when communicating. That is the point that I'm trying to make, and you are ignoring.

 

[TVC15]

Tapping the rear brack with a single, short, light touch won't slow you down much. Might as well have rolled off, or just keep going

That's right. It won't help much.

If you are in a curve and realize that you are going too fast you then slow down using both the front and rear brakes. (at least I do) Once you are stable in the curve you let off of the brakes and continue to accelerate...however if you misjudged the tightness of the curve you again apply the rear and front brakes. I call that taping the rear brake as needed. It works for me and most likely the reason you have yet to see me crash in the curvy mountains I ride in.

 

[TVC15]

The misunderstanding is directly linked to the words you choose to use when communicating. That is the point that I'm trying to make, and you are ignoring.

I am not ignoring the choice of words that I am using. Tap the rear brake (not repetitively tapping in a quick repetitive motion)while adjusting your speed in a tight curve is what I intended to say.

 

[Enchanter]

Annnd that's the end of this side discussion in this thread. Future posts related to this sidebar, will be removed.

Let's bring it back to the analysis of the crash that prompted this thread.

 

[budman]

I am ready to tap out of this thread.



Communication is not always easy. This mistake of thinking the OP was in the turn when realizing he was going to fast sure led to a lot of discussion and interpretation. It is important to be clear on a subject like this because a newbie rider might feel they found a great way of adjusting speed when they are way over their head in a turn.

What works when needing to make a small adjustment may not work when needing to make a big adjustment. Enchanter knows I don't use the rear often at least on my Multistrada.

Lets get off the symantics of tap. Gently apply or press is the intent.
Feel free to delete my waste of space post.

 

[TVC15]

Sounds like speeding to catch up with the leader without assessing the upcoming curve is the major factor.

Also heavily engaging only the front brakes was another factor.

 

[Enchanter]

Feel free to delete my waste of space post.

Nope, I like my job.

 

[tzrider]

Also heavily engaging only the front brakes was another factor.

It's highly likely that the manner in which he applied the front brake contributed to the crash much more than the fact he only used the front brake.

Either way, the situation called for extraordinary skills because of the decision to pass in that spot without knowing what lay beyond the vehicle he was passing. Quibbling over which brake to use is silly in this instance.

 

[TVC15]

It's highly likely that the manner in which he applied the front brake contributed to the crash much more than the fact he only used the front brake.

Either way, the situation called for extraordinary skills because of the decision to pass in that spot without knowing what lay beyond the vehicle he was passing. Quibbling over which brake to use is silly in this instance.

Yes it called for extraordinary braking skills and knowing how to properly apply the brakes.

Only using the front brakes certainly factored in...quibbling over how much it factored in does not seem silly IMO. It opens the discussion for the importance of knowing how to properly use the back brake in certain situations...especially since most riders are not in the habit of using their back brakes.

 

[Enchanter]

Is it your position that:

a - If the rider had used his rear brake, he wouldn't have crashed.

and

b - that the lack of rear brake was a primary cause-factor in this crash?

 

[TVC15]

Is it your position that:

a - If the rider had used his rear brake, he wouldn't have crashed.

and

b - that the lack of rear brake was a primary cause-factor in this crash?

No

 

[Enchanter]

Then let's walk away from that discussion and get back to crash analysis.

 

[Lunch Box]

In non-cornering situations I use both my brakes as evenly as possible.

This is the part that concerns me most. Keep in mind that many of the MSF techniques apply to beginning riders under mellow riding conditions. Once you get to the point where you are riding at a bit more spirited of a pace (particularly on the track), you will find that not all of those teachings are applicable. The fact is that, on clean, dry pavement, the front brake provides the lion's share of the braking. Using the brakes about evenly means that you are losing stopping power.

 

[Enchanter]

This is the part that concerns me most. Keep in mind that many of the MSF techniques apply to beginning riders under mellow riding conditions. Once you get to the point where you are riding at a bit more spirited of a pace (particularly on the track), you will find that not all of those teachings are applicable. The fact is that, on clean, dry pavement, the front brake provides the lion's share of the braking. Using the brakes about evenly means that you are losing stopping power.

Using both brakes evenly has never been part of the MSF has curriculum.

Then let's walk away from that discussion and get back to crash analysis.

 

[TVC15]

This is the part that concerns me most. Keep in mind that many of the MSF techniques apply to beginning riders under mellow riding conditions. Once you get to the point where you are riding at a bit more spirited of a pace (particularly on the track), you will find that not all of those teachings are applicable. The fact is that, on clean, dry pavement, the front brake provides the lion's share of the braking. Using the brakes about evenly means that you are losing stopping power.

I have been using this technique for my street riding for years even during my more spirited rides...there is nothing wrong with it. I also disagree that MSF techniques apply only to beginning riders. There are many very seasoned folks just like myself who can always learn something from advanced MSF training.

Claiming that using both brakes causes you to lose your slowing power is nonsensical. Using both brakes is maximizing your stopping potential.

A motorcycle using both brakes optimally will be able to stop at a 0.7g to 0.8g deceleration or better on a paved road surface. That is, on a good paved surface the average motorcycle will stop in a 40% to 50% percent shorter distance when upright and being slowed by its brakes compared to when it is sliding on its side.

Poor braking technique by a motorcycle operator will significantly increase the motorcycle’s stopping distance from a given speed.

 

[Enchanter]

Dianna, I've tried to help you understand how certain words convey a different meaning than intended.

You wrote:

In non-cornering situations I use both my brakes as evenly as possible.

Lunch Box (and I) interpreted that statement as that your braking consists of front 50% and rear 50%.