My Only Collision

[Burning1]

That's correct nobadwave. Your absolute speed when lane splitting is less important than your relative speed compared to traffic.

I feel much more comfortable doing 70mph in 60mph traffic than I do riding 30mph in 10mph traffic.

 

[dravnx]

That's correct nobadwave. Your absolute speed when lane splitting is less important than your relative speed compared to traffic.

I feel much more comfortable doing 70mph in 60mph traffic than I do riding 30mph in 10mph traffic.

Word

 

[dowlinginchico]

That's correct nobadwave. Your absolute speed when lane splitting is less important than your relative speed compared to traffic.

I feel much more comfortable doing 70mph in 60mph traffic than I do riding 30mph in 10mph traffic.

70 in a 60 traffic is when terrible things happen, besides giving riders a bad name. You should get uncomfortable with this real fast. Look at what happened to the OP when things got comfortable. Look at the recent RIP posts. It is not less important.

EDIT: Besides this, you are right on point.

 

[smm]

You were really close to going under the tanker in the #3 lane. Glad you made it.

In the start of the video I see 58 on your speedo, delta looks like 20. Traffic slows abruptly coming under the bridge, you don't slow much, 43 just before collision.

Due to the curve, you have the car in view for several seconds. It slows, then signals but less than 2 seconds before collision.

Problems:

1. Too fast. I used a 20mph speed limit for my first year and this worked great. After 10 years, 120K miles, I split routinely in the thirties, taper things off in the forties. I know a number of high-mileage riders with similar parameters. At your pace, you will be passing people with hundreds of thousands of accident-free miles.

2. Delta too high. I'd guess around 30mph at the time of collision. At a 10mph delta, this situation would have been a yawn to avoid, 3 - 5 seconds from the signal, more if you notice the gap and the slowing. 10mph is easy to estimate: think of how fast you pass things at a fast run.

3. Failure to react to your situation. Everyone else slowed down, you didn't. This exacerbated #1 and #2.

4. You seem to have a very casual attitude about crashing. The parking lot business can be forgiven, the other two...

 

[Burning1]

70 in a 60 traffic is when terrible things happen, besides giving riders a bad name.

I respect your opinion. Riders have different comfort levels with lane sharing. A lot of folks set 40MPH as a reasonable cut-off point. 100,000 miles of riding, 4 bikes, and 8 years of RIP threads later I'm fine with my choices.

To be honest, a large majority of the RIP threads I see are single vehicle accidents.

 

[Gawernator]

You were really close to going under the tanker in the #3 lane. Glad you made it.

In the start of the video I see 58 on your speedo, delta looks like 20. Traffic slows abruptly coming under the bridge, you don't slow much, 43 just before collision.

Due to the curve, you have the car in view for several seconds. It slows, then signals but less than 2 seconds before collision.

Problems:

1. Too fast. I used a 20mph speed limit for my first year and this worked great. After 10 years, 120K miles, I split routinely in the thirties, taper things off in the forties. I know a number of high-mileage riders with similar parameters. At your pace, you will be passing people with hundreds of thousands of accident-free miles.

2. Delta too high. I'd guess around 30mph at the time of collision. At a 10mph delta, this situation would have been a yawn to avoid, 3 - 5 seconds from the signal, more if you notice the gap and the slowing. 10mph is easy to estimate: think of how fast you pass things at a fast run.

3. Failure to react to your situation. Everyone else slowed down, you didn't. This exacerbated #1 and #2.

4. You seem to have a very casual attitude about crashing. The parking lot business can be forgiven, the other two...

Well casual because it's settled and I'm healed up. Can definitely say I am a lucky guy. I realized what I did wrong and moved on, so there's no use in freaking out about it...

 

[Gawernator]

I respect your opinion. Riders have different comfort levels with lane sharing. A lot of folks set 40MPH as a reasonable cut-off point. 100,000 miles of riding, 4 bikes, and 8 years of RIP threads later I'm fine with my choices.

To be honest, a large majority of the RIP threads I see are single vehicle accidents.

I also agree that splitting at speed is usually a lot safer. Cars are less likely to desperately jump over lanes like in slow rush hour traffic. The Berkeley study suggests 50 MPH at least

 

[Enchanter]

I also agree that splitting at speed is usually a lot safer. Cars are less likely to desperately jump over lanes like in slow rush hour traffic. The Berkeley study suggests 50 MPH at least

It's the speed differential that is important, not the overall speed. Also, cars are only reluctant to change lanes when another car is already beside them.

If I remember correctly, the study you refer to does not recommend splitting at 'at least 50mph'. They suggest that that should be the upper limit.

 

[clutchslip]

Found not at fault. My insurance said I'm at 0% fault, theirs is claiming 20%.

Good thing that I am not your insurance company.

I am your friend, however. No matter what, you were going to haul butt, weren't you? All those nice people making all that room and you make zero adjustments. While some may not like this: I always go where there is not a car, or the car is taking up less of the lane than the lane I am in. If you had not only slowed, but gone into that empty spot, you might have made it around that car that CLEARLY was going to change lanes. But you were going too fast and probably not covering your brakes to do anything. Think more about the situation that you are in. No way, no how, would I have collided with that vehicle.

 

[Burning1]

Well casual because it's settled and I'm healed up. Can definitely say I am a lucky guy. I realized what I did wrong and moved on, so there's no use in freaking out about it...

This is exactly what you should take out of this situation. I did some really stupid things when I was learning to ride. The fact that I've never had a serious collision is as much luck as anything else.

I'm a much safer rider now. Mistakes happen. It's critical that we recognize those mistakes, learn from them, and move on.

The most dangerous riders are the ones who blow the DY and think it's "no big deal" because they always get away without being hurt.

A good rider avoids those mistakes as much as possible, but when they happen, the good rider recognizes the risk, takes it seriously, and avoids making the mistake again.

 

[Gawernator]

This is exactly what you should take out of this situation. I did some really stupid things when I was learning to ride. The fact that I've never had a serious collision is as much luck as anything else.

I'm a much safer rider now. Mistakes happen. It's critical that we recognize those mistakes, learn from them, and move on.

The most dangerous riders are the ones who blow the DY and think it's "no big deal" because they always get away without being hurt.

A good rider avoids those mistakes as much as possible, but when they happen, the good rider recognizes the risk, takes it seriously, and avoids making the mistake again.

Definitely. Riding a motorcycle is truly an exercise in operational risk management. Lol. To the guy above, I know what you mean by relative speed differential being the most important, but I'm also pointing out the difference in driver behavior on average. The only time I am truly stressed if I ride or lane split is in heavy rush hour traffic like this around SF and Oakland. Outside of there, the amount of insane drivers seems to keep decreasing. That's why I like BART now in some ways. I'd rather read the forums and books on a train for 40 minutes than stress out being constantly hyper alert fighting to get to work, only to make it 5-10 minutes faster tops on a good day.

Riding my superbike is a lot more fun in every situation other than heavy rush hour....

Didn't mind it as much on a 300.

 

[clutchslip]

To the guy above, I know what you mean by relative speed differential being the most important, but I'm also pointing out the difference in driver behavior on average......
Riding my superbike is a lot more fun in every situation other than heavy rush hour....

Honestly, I am your friend. FORGET what the drivers do wrong. Drivers do wrong things, all the time. That includes, you and me. But, when you ride you must take full responsibility. Splitting is very stressful for me, because I am on survival guard every nano-second. Never give up your survival to someone else, if possible. And while splitting, it really is all on your shoulders.

My best.

 

[Gawernator]

Honestly, I am your friend. FORGET what the drivers do wrong. Drivers do wrong things, all the time. That includes, you and me. But, when you ride you must take full responsibility. Splitting is very stressful for me, because I am on survival guard every nano-second. Never give up your survival to someone else, if possible. And while splitting, it really is all on your shoulders.

My best.

Totally right. My level of caution and attention to detail is through the roof on my ZX-6R

 

[tzrider]

You failed to notice signaled the lane change.

Signaled? You must be seeing things man.

I am seeing things. I'm seeing the damn turn signal. And you would have too if you had been riding a bit more carefully.

View attachment 469048

That was glare and not the light, swear. This was confirmed.

It was confirmed by an idiot then. Go look at 0:28 in your video and you'll see the front turn signal continuing to flash. You got lucky in more ways than one.

 

[T100]

It was confirmed by an idiot then. Go look at 0:28 in your video and you'll see the front turn signal continuing to flash. You got lucky in more ways than one.

Yep, he had his signal on alright.

And dude, you need to gear up better. No knee and shin protection? Any body armor under that jacket? Those gloves?

I'd feel like I was naked riding like that. Not trying to be rude to you but, I don't know how better to say it.

 

[Gawernator]

Yep, he had his signal on alright.

And dude, you need to gear up better. No knee and shin protection? Any body armor under that jacket? Those gloves?

I'd feel like I was naked riding like that. Not trying to be rude to you but, I don't know how better to say it.

I have Alpinestars racing pants with the sliders, whatever they're called, ICON overlord resistance pants that I just gave to a friend yesterday, and ICON riding jeans with D30 reactive armor. This is f'ed up to say but I'm glad now I was only wearing cotton jeans that day. Lol. I just got paid out $6,103 for wages and suffering etc.

And signaling while turning doesn't count as signaling FYI. That's the same as not signaling at all lol. The guy tried to hit me, tried to fuck with me being some wannabe cholo gangster driving a 2004 shitty Lexus, he fucked up and actually hit me. Sucks to suck. I go slower on my 636. Easy day

Body armor? You mean the CE-1 and CE-2 panels in my shoulder, elbow/forearm, chest, back? And full grain goat skin leather gloves? Not even my new Alpinestars gloves are full grain leather palm lol. TGP Plus R Air A-stars

 

[Enchanter]

Let's bring this back to the purpose of this Forum: crash analysis.

 

[DataDan]

And signaling while turning doesn't count as signaling FYI. That's the same as not signaling at all lol. The guy tried to hit me, tried to fuck with me being some wannabe cholo gangster driving a 2004 shitty Lexus, he fucked up and actually hit me. Sucks to suck. I go slower on my 636. Easy day

You wanna be that way? OK.

YOU screwed up and the Lexus driver got screwed. He made a lane change he would never be ticketed for yet was found at-fault. What sucks is inept lane-splitting, a banged up car, and injustice. And it's all on you.

The reason you should have been found at-fault is that the driver the driver had every expectation of making an uneventful lane change. Traffic slowed suddenly at the SR-13 merge and was stacking up. But there was a gap in the next lane and he went for it. Then, in the brief time it took him to spot the opportunity and begin his move, you--going AT LEAST 30mph faster than the slowing traffic--had covered 250 feet from the overpass and into his path.

When the public finally get fed up and lane-splitting is banned, it will be no mystery why.

 

[dravnx]

You wanna be that way? OK.

YOU screwed up and the Lexus driver got screwed. He made a lane change he would never be ticketed for yet was found at-fault. What sucks is inept lane-splitting, a banged up car, and injustice. And it's all on you.

The reason you should have been found at-fault is that the driver the driver had every expectation of making an uneventful lane change. Traffic slowed suddenly at the SR-13 merge and was stacking up. But there was a gap in the next lane and he went for it. Then, in the brief time it took him to spot the opportunity and begin his move, you--going AT LEAST 30mph faster than the slowing traffic--had covered 250 feet from the overpass and into his path.

When the public finally get fed up and lane-splitting is banned, it will be no mystery why.

Completely agree with Dan on this. Whenever a riders blasts past me during my commute, and it happens a lot, I always think to myself "there goes another vote against lane splitting".

 

[tzrider]

When the public finally get fed up and lane-splitting is banned, it will be no mystery why.

On top of what Dan said, the Crash Analysis forum is for riders to learn what they could do differently to avoid a crash next time. So far your position has been all about defending your actions and making the other driver wrong. You're now taking it to the extent that you're changing your story to fit your narravtive. First, the driver didn't signal, that was glare, "this was confirmed," etc. Now, the guy didn't signal with enough lead time for you and deliberately tried to hit you.

A key requirement for analyzing a crash is being able to face reality. You're failing at this.

That driver was in a shallow right-hand bend and couldn't see you when he began his lane change. He did signal; that's about all the signal you'll ever get in heavy traffic. You were going too fast to have a prayer of avoiding contact when he made the reasonable lane change. If you can't handle that lane change and continue to split in this manner, this is probably how you will die.