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Stop Going to Ranges

You are welcome.

And may you continue riding well into old age.
 
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berth said:
Many ranges have private ranges you can rent where you can do almost anything you want. Even outside of training for personal defense, folks want to train for gun games like IPSC and such, which require draw from holster, moving, rapid fire, etc. All things most generic gun lane ranges won't let you do.

But even that said, some of those ranges will host competitions, where you can participate in those kinds of maneuvers. They can happen inside the range, on the other side of the tables.
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This is exactly what I used to do in the swamplands. We have a nice indoor range with AC about 45 minutes away. They started hosting USPSA matches which I did for about a year which was awesome. Learned a ton about clearing malfunctions during a shoot and how to recover quickly. many scenarios where put to the test and it was absolutely invaluable.

I do have a few quibbles with the original premise.

no layperson is going to be as familiar with the law as a person whose job it is to work with said laws on the regular. And no matter what you think about judges and lawyers they will be the ones helping to decide your fate. maybe the premise should be stated more as get advice from a lawyer who specializes in the section of the law you are concerned with and you will get better answers. Divorce lawyers will understandably not know the intricacies of gun law local or federal take their advice at your own risk.

Gun ranges can absolutely be helpful in keeping your skills sharp. They are not the be all end all but if you don't have access to other means of practicing then you go with what you got. If I remember correctly in California LM land can be used to shoot firearms but that information may be dated so check resources carefully to make sure I am remembering right. Out here in the swamplands I am luck enough to have enough land to practice if I want and my neighbor also has a nice backstopped area where I can shoot also and no one out here cares if someone is shooting as long as you are being safe. Just started teaching the grandson shooting skills and the cardinal rules of gun safety.

also quibbles with this line......
  • They’ve trained longer, harder, and under more realistic conditions than most tactical team members.
A private citizen may be able to train more than some podunk police department in the middle of nowhere with no budget but most bigger city police departments will have way better training than any private citizen can get and not really talking about rank and file guys but the tactical guys like SWAT teams and once you get into military tactical teams you are not going to find anyone with more experience than them. But you really don't make a clear distinction here so will leave it at that.

Also be sure to vet you self defense instructors as there are some guys who are not the best out there and have less training than said podunk police departments. Don't trust the mall ninja who has watched a ton of you tube videos and is now the expert to train you.
 
I’m liberal as hell. CCW carried when licensed in FL and practiced at ranges weekly (far less often these days) including draws, off-hand and so on drills.

Not a replacement for scenario training or tactical stuff, but good for muscle memory and familiarity.

Also, I carried chambered. Keeping the booger hook off the boom button safety worked for me.
 
CrashNBurn said:
Off topic, but since the gangs all here...

A negligent discharge is always a possibility with many firearms. Personally, I don’t carry my weapon chambered for exactly that reason, especially when I’m riding. I’ve trained specifically to charge the weapon during my draw, and with enough practice, the timing is virtually indistinguishable from drawing a chambered weapon. This method is also how Israeli Mossad operatives are trained to carry, so it’s not just theoretical, it’s been proven effective in real-world scenarios. The method is often called "Israeli Carry" for that reason.

I don’t expect to ever need to use my firearm in a self-defense situation, and that extra half-second delay is something I can afford. It gives me an added layer of intentionality and control, not just for my own safety, but for everyone around me, including children.

I think people underestimate how much hand strength is required to rack the slide on a pistol. Most kids, especially those who’ve never been taught how to shoot, wouldn’t even know how to charge a firearm. That’s not my primary child safety mechanism, of course, but it does serve as an added layer of protection.
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Have you timed your draw with a competition timer? with a loaded and unloaded chamber? I mean gut feeling is all well and good but discrete data still rules the day. If you have to ever use your gun in self defense a .5 second delay can mean life or death but I think once you time it the delay will be more than you think.

The P320 is having issues I know RR says his is fine but too many people have supposed no interaction discharges to ignore and when the military says nope not safe I tend to listen. Been around a ton of people carrying(USPSA events) and all rounds start of one in the chamber and never had an AD and they are anal about safety. Even if you sweep your own foot during a match you are out.
 
I’ve seen videos that make the Sig 320 very questionable.
 
You sound like the gun owner I wish every gun owner was.

And a big yes on deescalation when it’s possible.
 
I'm going to say people have some misconceptions about self defense, what I mean is most people are delusional about self defense.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight is the guy with the gun being delusional. If I'm ten feet from with you with a blade out and you have a concealed carry firearm and you reach for that gun you'll be cut up like a Christmas ham before you get that firearm out of your waist band. This is the Tueller drill.


if you're less than 20 feet from the aggressor you probably need an empty handed response to the attack, because you won't be able to draw and deploy your fire arm in time.

This is of course a fantasy because in the above scenario the bad person identifies themselves and their intent to attack but in reality they won't give away their intention and you'll be surprised.
 
Surprise is surprise whether its knife or gun. It is eye opening to see how quickly that guy covers the 15ft but I did see the guy fumble his draw a little which allowed him to get clsoer. I have seen drills where people will practice drawing and firing from low just for these sort of close quarter encounters as you don't really have to aim. He could have also created space by backing up as he draws or shifting to the side at the last minute to let the guy pass by or moved to the guys off hand side to not allow him full range of motion as he would have had to reach across his body to try and slice him.
 
Right but if the attacker is closing in on you the space between you and the attacker is shrinking rapidly a point of the muzzle towards their torso is more likely to hit the attacker than go careening out into the wild. I am not advocating for that kind of shot for attackers at a longer distance but when they are up in your face raising it to sight picture level may not be necessary.

I fully understand we are liable for all of our shots and you talk about losing everything in civil court but if you do nothing then you lose your life. I also mentioned that the video showed a prescribed scenario where both people faced off and stood there ground waiting for the other one and there are some simple moves that can be made to negate the knife and long draw time but I understand it may have been more to show just how quickly a person can traverse 15-20ft.
 
CrashNBurn, perhaps you'd have to travel north to the State of Jefferson? If you want to warn people away from ranges, appeal to avoiding lead poisoning. That is a real issue.

My wife is always amazed at some of my latent skill sets. Tattooed a boxing speed bag in the gym early in our relationship. She looked at me with a WTF face. Now, she just smiles and accepts when I show proficiency at something that is one of my long ago acquired skills. You know the speech,

"What I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career...yada, yada."

Some of us at the range are punching paper to test the firearm, not hone a skill. Here in town, there's a very well-appointed range. If I want to play Quick Draw McGraw, I'd have to sign up for a class. But I can drive a thirty minutes south and avail myself of the Clay Pit and it's a-public open air shooting range. It can be like the wild west on weekends, but you can play James Bond if you keep your nose clean,

I think many are reading you equating range time as akin to trying to learn tennis by playing on a Wii console. I see your point, but you are ignoring some favorable commentary here in your zeal to admonish some folks that might ONLY practice in rudimentary fashion. The previous guy that wanted to start a New Era had a better sense of humor. ;)
 
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J,

You asked where more than a simple range environment existed. Mentioned up here in the North State that such exists.

You lamented what you perceive at the range. I pointed out that perhaps some of those folks have proper training and are maybe sighting in a new optic.

I get it, standing at firing line and pulling the trigger sedately isn't combat training. For beginners, as has been pointed out, it's a first step. Whether a shooter is going to restrict themselves to home carry only or actually pursue a CCW, one would hope they would advance their skill set.

But it's the 2nd Amendment, they get to own without infringement.

B
 
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