ADV/DS ride Lake Berryessa/Knoxville OHV/Rayhouse Rd.

[Leo_jb]

Sheetiron

I'm also interested in riding the Sheetiron this year. How many guys are riding big bikes? I have a KTM 990, but also a plated XR400 that might be more fun.

Leo

 

[Lunch Box]

I'm considering going. If I do, it will be on the DR-two-fiddy.

 

[seavoyage]

I'm also interested in riding the Sheetiron this year. How many guys are riding big bikes? I have a KTM 990, but also a plated XR400 that might be more fun.
Leo

@ Leo - I think the XR400 may be more fun on the Sheetiron. routes West of US-101 got pretty muddy, with many of the big bikes stuck and burning daylight between Willits and Ft. Bragg. The multiple water crossing became quite interesting on drowned ADV bikes. I was fortunate I didn't campaign the Tiger and decided to ride the DR250. The Oakland MC transports your gear to Ft. Bragg and back to Stonyford, and with frequent access to fuel stops you only need to pack the minimum: flat repair, hydration.

I'm considering going. If I do, it will be on the DR-two-fiddy.

@ Bonerov - your DR250 performed flawlessly this last Sheetiron. The wide-ratio 6-speed made for a faster pace than the other plated dirt bikes on the slab connecting trails. The relatively light weight was a benefit in the rock gardens and water crossings: Better even with the RMX250 front-end, and maybe a 441cc Big-Bore kit! for hill climbs.

Here's a link to the Sheetiron thread: http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396034

 

[Lunch Box]

The big bore kit would be fun, but I'm not sure I'll pull the trigger on that between now and the Sheetiron. We shall see. It also had a superior rider last year.....

 

[PastRedline]

@ Kyle - I'm a slowpoke on my vstrom in the dirt (just ask Drew, Aaron, Greg...heck anybody ) and interested in doing the easy splits on the sheetiron...let's talk & ride......if 103_moto rides it as well, between his gear and my kit I think we could BUILD a dirtbag challenge bike on the side of the trail...

I'd be interested in that for sure.

And the beginning of a team develops. Are you guys planning on the December ride? (12/8, I assume) We could talk about it then. If not, we'll put something together to go have a ride together.

Kyle - If you are fine on Rayhouse road - you'll be fine on all the Easy splits on the Sheetiron... IF you don't drown the bike on the water crossings.

Maybe I'll pull my plugs in the garage, with the onboard tools to get the procedure down...
They may be even bigger than the 800, but that's the nice part about the 1200's - easy access to the plugs.

Kyle is just looking someone slower that takes all the easy splits to hang out with .

Hey, I resent tha.... Aw, screw it, yep, Kris is right...

 

[Jcrocker]

I'm considering going. If I do, it will be on the DR-two-fiddy.

Send me a PM if you plan on going on the 9th

 

[Lunch Box]

Send me a PM if you plan on going on the 9th

Will do. I am about 90% sure I'll be going on the 9th. We shall see....

 

[Jcrocker]

Will do. I am about 90% sure I'll be going on the 9th. We shall see....

the only thing that scares me is the early start time , with my vast 50 miles of dirt experience the black diamond trails off road should be no problem

 

[Lunch Box]

Oh John, the Knoxville ride is a piece of cake. We always have a few uber beasts along, and they do just fine.

 

[DukeD]

So I had a leisure day today and pulled the bike out to give her a wash after this Sunday's ride. There I am wiping down the rear wheel and I notice the bend in the rim from the last ride, i think to myself "I've got to fix that" as I continue to turn and wipe the rear rim. Then the bend comes up again, and again, and again and I think "man am I spinning the wheel that fast? I step back and low and behold, there are TWO bends in the rear rim. One from the July ride and an brand new one from this past Sunday .
The first bend happened with 24lbs, this new bend happend with 30lbs psi.
I guess I either need a stiffer tire or run the dirt set up from now on.

 

[seavoyage]

Tire psi? ... Use Rim Clean

So I had a leisure day today and pulled the bike out to give her a wash after this Sunday's ride. There I am wiping down the rear wheel and I notice the bend in the rim from the last ride, i think to myself "I've got to fix that" as I continue to turn and wipe the rear rim. Then the bend comes up again, and again, and again and I think "man am I spinning the wheel that fast? I step back and low and behold, there are TWO bends in the rear rim. One from the July ride and an brand new one from this past Sunday .
The first bend happened with 24lbs, this new bend happend with 30lbs psi.
I guess I either need a stiffer tire or run the dirt set up from now on.

Dean - at least the dents are 180 degrees from eachother. 2 more dents at 90 degrees should sort it out.

Actually surprised you're getting the dents: as I run 7psi rear (MT-43 trials with Tubliss) 11psi front (Pirelli F.I.M. Knobby) on my EC300 with Excel rims; and 4psi rear 6psi front (Michellin X11) on my Trials bike... that I do bash (splatter, jap zap) against rocks. These tire pressures result in 4mm 'Rim Clean'; so the psi is correct for dirt on my bikes, and I shouldn't go any higher psi (less than 2mm 'Rim clean'). What gives with the Goldspeed SUMO Intermediate/Rain tires?

Thanks for bringing out your plated dirt bikes and SUMO crew in force

Here's a video of the 'Rim Clean' method for tire pressures:

[YOUTUBE]uwfc6MYDSt0[/YOUTUBE]​

Courtesy of TheLetterJ @ D-37

I've been preaching "rim clean" for many years on many forums, so I'll just cut and paste one of my posts from another forum:

I've always set my tire pressure to 4mm of rim clean. I could tell you exact numbers for a given tire (assuming it's one I've used) on one of my bikes at a certain riding area and it will be different than the same tire, same bike, same rider in a different terrain. For example, I ran 7psi on slow going rock covered single track on a 2002 crf450r with an 18" rear wheel and a maxxis IT... I needed 16 psi to maintain my 4mm rim clean on the same tire on the same bike when I would hit the desert. I feel that I have given each tire a fair comparison by adjusting air pressure this way.

there might be a more scientific way of doing it, but this is the way I've done it: start off with presseure higher than you know you will need (i.e. 20psi) and ride a loop/trail that you are familiar with at your typical pace. You don't have to ride the whole thing, just a section that is a good summary of the trails terrain. Drop your pressure 2psi at a time and ride the loop/trail again. Repeat this process until there is a clean stripe all the way around your rim closest to the tire (the clean stripe is from the tire deforming and rolling up onto the rim, wiping the dust off.) This works regardless of tire/bike/rider/terrain as it will tell YOU (not someone elses general recommendation) what pressure is right for YOUR particular situation at YOUR particular pace on YOUR particular bike. This also ensures that you are giving each tire an even comparison being that one tire may work better at a lower/higher pressure than another but this way you can run them all at the same level of deflection.

I've heard other people suggest 2-3mm (higher psi) of rim clean and I've even heard of people running more like 5-6mm (lower psi) but in my experience, I've never got a pinch flat running 4mm (on an 18" wheel) even hitting rocks at speed in the desert and I can't complain about traction so I've got no reason to adjust any further. I have also found that the smaller the wheel (usually results in a shorter sidewall), the less rim clean you'll want. My mini has a 14" rear wheel and will pinch flat at 4mm but is happy at 2-3mm. My bike with a 19" rear is happiest at 3mm.

YMMV but this method has been working for me and I believe that if more people tried it this way instead of just running whatever pressure their buddy runs, there would be a lot less complaints about tires!

.... but if you just want the vague answer, I run 7psi in an MT43 on my GasGas 300 and 11psi in an MT43 on my KTM 690 (which I rode in last years LA-B-V)

 

[DukeD]

I'm guessing the maxxis sidewalls are too soft to protect my rims even at 30psi so I've got to think of something else for next month.
So this Rim Clean method goes by how much distance between the rim and tire? Wouldn't that distance change by tire style and brand? I don't get it.

Sound like there's going to be a lot of Sheetiron riders next year. Should be fun!

 

[seavoyage]

So this Rim Clean method goes by how much distance between the rim and tire? Wouldn't that distance change by tire style and brand?

The rim clean is a band of clean surface on the edge of the rim. When the tire is at the correct psi given: the terrain, riding style, bike/rider weight, suspension, wheel size, type of tire, type of bike, ambient temperature; the sidewall flexes just enough to contact 2-4mm of the outer edge of the rim and keeps the 2-4mm area of the 'rim clean'. Any more than 4mm and your tire pressure is too low; No clean band = psi too high which is very often the case.


SUMO tires run ~1.8bar (26psi) to 2.2 bar (32psi) and you were in the ballpark; so I suspect your rim damage was from a pothole on the pavement rather than dirt... (similar to StarMan's BMW rim damage). I do drop-off G-outs on the Trials bike at 4psi with no damage.

I think Maxxis SUMO tires are bias-ply. If your tires are radials then the sidewalls are more flexible and you can run lower pressures compared to a bias-ply tire which has a stiffer sidewall. On heavy ADV bikes that switch from bias-ply to radials, riders often don't adjust for radial running pressures (higher psi) and find their tires too soft or 'squirmy'; from radials to bias-ply (stiffer side-wall) the tires feel 'hard' and 'lack grip'.

Warning: Don't mix bias and radial tires on the same vehicle.

Examples of radials and bias ply for big bikes:

Bias Ply
Conti TKC 80
Metzeler Karoo T

Radial Ply
Dunlop 908
Metzeler MCE Karoo

Here's a comprehensive link on tires for DS and ADV riders: http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/TireOpinionsFAQ.htm

Sound like there's going to be a lot of Sheetiron riders next year. Should be fun!

Yeah, if they get their entry fee in for one of the 500 slots. You know the Sheetiron is sold out within 36-hrs.

... the Sheetiron. We shall see. It also had a superior rider last year.....

Not so, despite 40 years of riding, I absolutely suck!

I'm sticking to a basic skills training schedule to become a better rider. I've been focusing on Trials as my primary training regime which is now my 3x/week physical and occupational therapy session consisting of 1 hour of trials drills: balance, precision riding, bike control; and spend quality time with my kids by play riding on the local MX tracks on weekends.

I did the Sheetiron in May, and hope to do the LA - Barstow to Las Vegas next week; but I hope to transition from the Dual-Sport rides and try AMA D-36 Hare Scrambles or Enduros next year (C Super Senior class).

 

[PastRedline]

So I had a leisure day today and pulled the bike out to give her a wash after this Sunday's ride. There I am wiping down the rear wheel and I notice the bend in the rim from the last ride, i think to myself "I've got to fix that" as I continue to turn and wipe the rear rim. Then the bend comes up again, and again, and again and I think "man am I spinning the wheel that fast? I step back and low and behold, there are TWO bends in the rear rim. One from the July ride and an brand new one from this past Sunday .
The first bend happened with 24lbs, this new bend happend with 30lbs psi.
I guess I either need a stiffer tire or run the dirt set up from now on.

Funny you should mention that. I got a fairly decent bent (front) rim on this last ride (Small bend on left, big bend on right). I even know when it happened - big ass hit to the front rim while I was riding back - almost made me come unstuck.

Fixing it was too expensive, given that the F8 rims are apparently notorious for being too soft and would probably bend again, so my front hub is currently on a UPS truck, heading to Denver to be built into a new front wheel by Woody's.

~23 PSI hot. Think I'll run a little higher from now on. The new rim is also a 1.85" width instead of 2.15", which they say gives more protection...

-Kyle

 

[olhogrider]

Warning: Don't mix bias and radial tires on the same vehicle.

Examples of radials and bias ply for big bikes:

Bias Ply
Conti TKC 80
Metzeler Karoo T

Radial Ply
Dunlop 908
Metzeler MCE Karoo

Here's a comprehensive link on tires for DS and ADV riders: http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/TireOpinionsFAQ.htm

And this is why you shouldn't get all your information from the internet forums. Several manufacturers send their bikes out of the factory with 1 bias and 1 radial. Triumph and H-D both come to mind. This myth stems from early automotive experience mixing them. The front would have different grip levels than the back. Car tires are all about side load. Not so on bikes.

Hope to be on the next ride!

 

[Farmer John]

Several manufacturers send their bikes out of the factory with 1 bias and 1 radial. Triumph and H-D both come to mind.

The first 2 years of the BMW F650 single came with a Metz ME33 bias front & MEZ2 radial rear stock.

 

[RSD]

Seavoyage

Riding dirt requires endurance, balance, flexibility and strength.

Of course the best training is simply seat time: I focus mostly on Trials and laps on a lightweight dirt bike on a Vet MX track: no need for doubles/triples, etc. just ride 2-lap intervals to 20-min motos.

I see you are from the Walnut Creek area, me too. Where do you get your practice in? I need to try and get more local seat time. I have the seat, but the time can be an issue

 

[seavoyage]

Where do you get your practice in? I need to try and get more local seat time. I have the seat, but the time can be an issue

@ Gary -

Wherever my kids want to ride on the weekend: either Carnegie or Metcalf Trials areas or MX track; sometimes Hollister... . I just do trials balance drills, precision riding in the driveway 3x/week which definitely helps improve my off-road riding.

Once a month I do the 2nd Sunday Lake Berryessa/Knoxville ride. I pursue a few longer rides during the year that require navigation like the Sheetiron 300 in May, LA-Barstow-to Vegas in November, or the Noobs Death Valley Rally in March; and a run down to Baja in May (Synched up with the SCORE Baja 500).

I'm planning on doing the AMA D-36 MSR Youth/Family Enduro Series or the MSR Western Regional Cross-Country Series with my kids next year.

Since I no longer ride the slab, an alternative to the Ironbutt may be the Mex2Can: looks interesting...

A few friends just did the Terra Nova in Victoria BC last week... snow both days this year.

I'm so IN for next year, but that means I won't do the 2013 LAB2LV.

[YOUTUBE]9dJu91wUOsA[/YOUTUBE]​

 

[RSD]

What kind of skills work do you do in your driveway. I live on a small court and could do some of that type work to help my balance / skill set. Guess I need to try and get out to Metcalf / Carnegie a bit. Terra Nova looks crazy, my skills need to improve a bit before I would come close to that level of riding

Been looking at the Berryessa ride, but Sundays are not a good day for me, wish they were on Saturday
Thanks for the info

 

[Leo_jb]

Hey Drew!

I've never been to Carnegie before, but I'm thinking of paying a visit to play round on my 990. How long should I wait after the rains, or is it ok wet?

Thanks

Leo