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Tesla Model 3: End of the Internal-Combustion Engine?

ctwo said:
I guess if you have free solar charging.
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She does, and I suspect that it will be become more and more common as the years go by.

There is always some randomness in vehicle depreciation, but I don’t see the Tesla being much worse than whatever else she would have bought. If your keeping a car for 200,000 miles residual value isn’t a big factor in overall use cost anyways unless it’s something collectible.


As to comparisons, I don’t think to be fair you need to compared the Tesla with only 75% battery life to a similarly hammered old used car. Sure a 20 year old Toyota with a quarter million miles may not have needed much, but just like a similar age Tesla is going to be pretty beat and would need a lot to “freshen up”

My old Prius was still driving at 280,000 with only a few thousand total in repairs/maintenance but it was very different from when it was new at that point.
 
byke said:
At 15 years, all any of us can say now is, yeah, maybe, who knows. One thing I do know is that if a Model S battery is still hanging in there at 15 years, let say the range has dropped from 265mi to 180mi(68%), the thing isn't selling for 10k.
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I’ve been on barf for 20 years. I’ll surely be on another 5. And this thread will probably still be going too. So we’ll just have to see who’s right then. I’m honestly worn out arguing about cars I give only enough of a shit about to do my job competently and not get electrocuted. Almost feel like it would be less frustrating in the poli sink.

But I’m sticking to my guns. A 15 year old Model S will be worth pretty much its replacement battery cost, which is what…$15k or so. If Tesla’s “claims” are right, then maybe the pack doesn’t degrade much and don’t even bother replacing the pack. I guess we’ll just see how good those batteries really are after 15 years. Tesla and their charlatan CEO sure have made a lot of claims (still holding my breath on that Cybertruck), so maybe they can actually make good on one for a change.
 
I have no idea how they're setup. They can meet their claim if they undercharge and cutoff early, but with range being such a big deal, I can't see Musk making any sacrifices in marketing ability with range just to make people happy about their cars years down the road when they're well out of warranty. Still, if they do what they say, odds are it'll be usable at 15 years. I'm sure that renegade Tesla tech Rich Benoit would know a bit about the charge/discharge profile.
 
I imagine there will be quite a few people happy to run around in old beat up electric cars with only a hundred miles of range, and at least you would have a decent idea of what you were getting compared to buying an old beater gas car.

Its not like the batteries just give up at a certain age, they just aren't as good anymore.
 
bpw said:
I imagine there will be quite a few people happy to run around in old beat up electric cars with only a hundred miles of range, and at least you would have a decent idea of what you were getting compared to buying an old beater gas car.

Its not like the batteries just give up at a certain age, they just aren't as good anymore.
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There are people still with iPhone 6s in their pocket. At 7 years old, you know that battery lasts maybe half as long as it did new. Those people would probably prefer the battery performance didn’t degrade because the phone is totally fine for their use otherwise, but while I would’ve gotten a new phone after 2 years, they intend to get their money’s worth out of it.
 
My dslr I bought in 2010 is still using the original batteries.
But to be honest it doesn’t get a lot of use.
 
You really have to know the specifics. How was it stored? Is there parasitic draw? Where are the cutoffs? There are millions of dead laptop batteries out there, that didn't need to be.

Anyone understand the new credits? If we can get a '23 Leaf or a '23 Bolt EV/EUV for under 30k OTD before any credits, and it's also eligible for the full 7500 federal credit, this might finally be the time. Looks like the credits will benefit Tesla just the same by removing(resetting?) the sales cap.

List of potential cars here:
https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/inflation-reduction-act

If looking at a specific car, you can enter the VIN at the bottom to see location of final assembly, though I think that info is included on window stickers.
 
TheRobSJ said:
There are people still with iPhone 6s in their pocket. At 7 years old, you know that battery lasts maybe half as long as it did new. Those people would probably prefer the battery performance didn’t degrade because the phone is totally fine for their use otherwise, but while I would’ve gotten a new phone after 2 years, they intend to get their money’s worth out of it.
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I use mine for streaming audio while I'm in the garage....

I have all my old phones, going back to mid 90s. :dunno
 
I'll have to dig out some boxes in the garage, but for some reason I have a charger for Nokia 5110 sitting in a carry-all toolbox. :laughing
 
Any BARFers working on self-driving?

cybertruck-sensors.jpg


https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/9...-spotted-being-tested-with-additional-cameras
 
Holy smokes.

I agree with Elon Musk for once.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...p-feeds&cvid=d7c88fe53b914b31a6488a1cae28f29b

"I don't think it was a coincidence that you had Elon Musk in Stavanger, in Norway, talking about 'please don't decommission any more nuclear power plants', you know … 'we need oil and gas to do the clean transition, we need that bridge.'"

"And I think he's very well aware that you cannot sell a lot of electrical vehicles with electricity prices going through the roof right now."

"I mean, the cost advantage for electric vehicles versus a gasoline car is fast diminishing here in Europe, and I'm really wondering to what degree that will begin to impact sales for EVs."

Garnry's remarks refer to a recent interview Musk gave at the ONS 2022 Conference in Norway, in which he offered up his opinion on fossil fuels and the wider energy transition.

"I, actually, am not someone who would tend to, sort of, demonize oil and gas, to be clear," Musk said. "This is necessary right now, or civilization could not function."

"And … at this time, I think we actually need more oil and gas, not less, but simultaneously moving as fast as we can to a sustainable energy economy," the Tesla chief went on to state.

Musk, who also stressed the importance of renewables such as hydro, solar, geothermal and wind, later described himself as "pro nuclear" and said "we should really keep going with the nuclear plants."
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Of all the places to ask to not decommission nuclear power plants, Norway isn't it. :laughing
 
Tough to beat the energy density of nuclear, but you get the inverse with the waste. Crazy energy from a small amount and crazy toxicity from a small amount. Hydro is the ticket if you have water, but we don't really have that, sooooo let's just nuke all the things enjoy our RoboCop dystopian future while it lasts.
 
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