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Tesla Model 3: End of the Internal-Combustion Engine?

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Folks are being a bit overly critical of Tesla for not being able to self drive in snow.
I would never have expected it capable of that so not surprised at all by results shown in that video.

Digging the idea of a car that can do some of the driving though.
Not digging boneheads who take a nap while the car is in control.
 
Tesla can't self drive in normal conditions, so... :laughing

I've been watching some Waymo ride videos recently and am very impressed with their capability.
 
But then there's stuff out there like this:

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/01/t...ns-as-buyers-start-to-look-elsewhere-in-2023/

Although Tesla is still the most popular choice for people interested in buying a new EV in 2023, the preference for the brand is waning among customers. Two thirds of owners and lessees surveyed for Jerry’s 2023 State of the American Driver Report said their top choice would not be a Tesla, and instead pointed to EVs from other brands as their top choice.
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Elon might be becoming a PR "issue"? :dunno
 
somesuch said:
Until this, I simply was not aware of it... I was not interested in electric cars, and did not pay attention at how excellent of a vehicle those teslas are..... now I want one :)
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I have a Tesla Model Y Performance. It's a fucking blast to drive. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and instant torque at any power bandwidth. They aren't cheap, but if you're already in the market for a comparably priced vehicle, it's worth it IMO. Maintenance costs and fuel costs are much cheaper. Insurance may be more expensive.

Supposedly Telsa, and I'd think all EVs, have lower rates of catching fire after crashes compared to ICE vehicles, but if they do catch fire there's really no putting the fire out. They just keep burning for hours with the battery chemical reaction.

ScarySpikes said:
Apparently Tesla forgot to train their shitty FSD to handle snow.

[YOUTUBE]_swe1pXXgNo[/YOUTUBE]

The driver literally has to take over constantly, and when the FSD was in control it tried to crash into curbs, and other cars.

The fact that they are selling this shit to the public at all, and especially the fact that they are charging like 10k for it, is disgusting.
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It's even worse than that. So called FSD hasn't been available at 10K for about a year. Last year Tesla bumped it up to 12K, then to the current 15K. Not worth it IMO. It is far from self driving. I think California just passed some legislation, or maybe it was a lawsuit, about truth in advertising. Tesla might be forced to call it something else, like Future Self Driving, at least in California.
 
bojangle said:
I have a Tesla Model Y Performance. It's a fucking blast to drive. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and instant torque at any power bandwidth. They aren't cheap, but if you're already in the market for a comparably priced vehicle, it's worth it IMO. Maintenance costs and fuel costs are much cheaper. Insurance may be more expensive.

Supposedly Telsa, and I'd think all EVs, have lower rates of catching fire after crashes compared to ICE vehicles, but if they do catch fire there's really no putting the fire out. They just keep burning for hours with the battery chemical reaction.



It's even worse than that. So called FSD hasn't been available at 10K for about a year. Last year Tesla bumped it up to 12K, then to the current 15K. Not worth it IMO. It is far from self driving. I think California just passed some legislation, or maybe it was a lawsuit, about truth in advertising. Tesla might be forced to call it something else, like Future Self Driving, at least in California.
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15k for software that doesn't work and likely never will. The fact that they haven't been sued already is honestly strange. They were just fined in, I think, Korea, for lying about their range claims.
 
jiffy said:
Every car company "lies" about their claims. It's like, "If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'" with all car companies.
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Point is, if it's OK to hold Tesla accountable for what is actually pretty minor underperformance in terms of range, shouldn't they be held accountable for the way, way more egregious and dangerous lies about FSD?
 
I dunno about the lies, since it's "beta" and it's obvious some disciples still buy it,

but, exactly based on the above video, I have no idea what is EVEN the point of FSD . It's as if LITERALLY its only purpose is to drive you home when drunk... or asleep. :dunno

if you use FSD, there is no point to the 500 hp
if you have wife / kids in the car, no point. What are you gonna do: if you use FSD, the wife is gonna like it if you play a video game???!?

Blankpage said:
Not digging boneheads who take a nap while the car is in control.
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oh yeah? :hand
 
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It they called FSD, a driver aid, and not Full Self Driving, would that be OK?

People have a lot of beef about "Auto pilot", but these folks are obiously not pilots, but because when a plane used auto pilot, there is obiously a pilot in the loop. Pilots know that its not autonomous and I think most pasengers know that too.



I think long term, truely atonomus vehicles will be light the seat belt.

Many fought the seat belt when they came out. "You will be trapped!" That critism did not age well.
 
Killroy1999 said:
It they called FSD, a driver aid, and not Full Self Driving, would that be OK?

People have a lot of beef about "Auto pilot", but these folks are obiously not pilots, but because when a plane used auto pilot, there is obiously a pilot in the loop. Pilots know that its not autonomous and I think most pasengers know that too.



I think long term, truely atonomus vehicles will be light the seat belt.

Many fought the seat belt when they came out. "You will be trapped!" That critism did not age well.
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Both Autopilot and FSD are improperly named and improperly advertised. 'Autopilot' is less egregious. Tesla doesn't claim that it's actual sell driving, just something similar to GM's super cruise. FSD (Beta), however, is advertised as a beta test for a Level 5, fully automated driving. It's not even close. It can't handle complicated roads, can't handle curbs, can't handle weather, can't handle a lot of types of traffic, can't handle many traffic signals, can't handle much of anything beyond a known ok route with little to no traffic. Companies that are serious about achieving real autonomous driving at this point are at 20k+ miles on average between intervention being required. Some closer to 50k miles. Tesla FSD is at like 7. It's not a serious effort, it performs like a pre alpha at best, yet Tesla advertises like they are only a few months to a year away from having it ready to go, and they have done that for like half a decade.

Going to make it clear, I do think that, eventually, probably closer to 10 years away at least, we will move to mostly, or even fully autonomous vehicles. I don't think Tesla is going to be the one to do it. I think that it's really fucked up for them to charge for the technology when they are so, so far away from having a viable product. I think it's even more fucked up to use customers as beta testers when this has killed multiple people now when it failed. I think it's incredibly fucked up that, in order to try to avoid accountability for the many crashes, they have programmed it to turn off FSD if it thinks the vehicle is about to crash.
 
ScarySpikes said:
Both Autopilot and FSD are improperly named and improperly advertised. 'Autopilot' is less egregious. Tesla doesn't claim that it's actual sell driving, just something similar to GM's super cruise. FSD (Beta), however, is advertised as a beta test for a Level 5, fully automated driving. It's not even close. It can't handle complicated roads, can't handle curbs, can't handle weather, can't handle a lot of types of traffic, can't handle many traffic signals, can't handle much of anything beyond a known ok route with little to no traffic. Companies that are serious about achieving real autonomous driving at this point are at 20k+ miles on average between intervention being required. Some closer to 50k miles. Tesla FSD is at like 7. It's not a serious effort, it performs like a pre alpha at best, yet Tesla advertises like they are only a few months to a year away from having it ready to go, and they have done that for like half a decade.

Going to make it clear, I do think that, eventually, probably closer to 10 years away at least, we will move to mostly, or even fully autonomous vehicles. I don't think Tesla is going to be the one to do it. I think that it's really fucked up for them to charge for the technology when they are so, so far away from having a viable product. I think it's even more fucked up to use customers as beta testers when this has killed multiple people now when it failed. I think it's incredibly fucked up that, in order to try to avoid accountability for the many crashes, they have programmed it to turn off FSD if it thinks the vehicle is about to crash.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but on the Tesla website under the FSD option, this is what it says. It states very clearly it's not fully autonomous and it requires driver intervention/action.

FAQ

Which features come with my subscription?
The FSD capability features you receive are based on your configuration and location. Not all features are available in all markets, and features are subject to change. Learn more about Autopilot features.

Note: These features are designed to become more capable over time; however the currently enabled features do not make the vehicle autonomous. The currently enabled features require a fully attentive driver, who has their hands on the wheel and is prepared to take over at any moment.
 
In the family fleet I have a recent M3P with summer and winter wheel sets and FSD.

The car's commute is 200 miles roundtrip in often unplowed winter conditions, for family elder care in a farming area.

My impressions as a rally enthusiast:

- superb e-nannies for people like my wife who don't like to hoon
(and track mode for those who do)
- feature-rich, utilitarian people mover for local drives
- FSD is fun, not 100% but improving, greatest thing on boring cross-country drives and in heavy traffic
- I don't like the handling in stock trim (and probably in any trim), but I have high standards there

No regrets buying it; the few times I use the FSD it's useful and fun. Supercharging on cross-country drives is a pain and hard on the battery, but the FSD is great. ~2500 mile road trip coming up next weekend, and I'm taking the AWD diesel wagon with a 500-600 mile range.
 
Jammer said:
I think this more related to the low center of gravity that EVs enjoy due to battery placement and the fact that the car did not roll over during the decent. ICE cars tend to dip forward and rotate mid air due to their relatively high and front engine mounting. Exception for mid or rear mount engine cars may vary.
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The roof of that Tesla model 3 certainly looks untouched :)
 
jiffy said:
Maybe I'm missing something, but on the Tesla website under the FSD option, this is what it says. It states very clearly it's not fully autonomous and it requires driver intervention/action.

FAQ

Which features come with my subscription?
The FSD capability features you receive are based on your configuration and location. Not all features are available in all markets, and features are subject to change. Learn more about Autopilot features.

Note: These features are designed to become more capable over time; however the currently enabled features do not make the vehicle autonomous. The currently enabled features require a fully attentive driver, who has their hands on the wheel and is prepared to take over at any moment.
Click to expand...

Their website dramatically differs from the way that Musk talks about and advertises FSD. It also contradicts the name 'Full Self Driving'

Anyway, video of a crash that happened hours after FSD (beta) was enabled broadly for Tesla owners came out today.

https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-autopilot/

As it turns out, your car randomly slamming on the brakes in a tunnel is a recipe for disaster.
 
ScarySpikes said:
...hours after FSD (beta) was enabled broadly for Tesla owners came out today.

https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-autopilot/
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That incident in the tunnel is so much *$@! , moreover so since I guess we can all remember that it was just this last thanksgiving -and some wondered how come there's a bad incident on the bridge-- and even more that a two 2 y/o died.

When you think about it all the Tesla driver needed to do is hit the accelerator :rolleyes :thumbdown and avoid a crash!!!!

This FSD is why I said above, WHY does this product need to even exist!? :thumbdown

--
this Tesla user is wondering the same:
https://twitter.com/wk057/status/1612303558157783043
It takes significantly more effort to drive with FSD enabled, because it always does stupid things.
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it's still pretty much useless for me.

It does *NOTHING* well EXCEPT lane centering.
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Bumping an old thread. Anyone here have a Model 3? What do you think of it?

We are thinking about getting solar on the roof, and I need a car so I am thinking about maybe picking up a used Model 3 if everything pans out. Thoughts? Spend a bit more for a used Model S?
 
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